Is it Better to Exist, or Not to Exist?

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syzygyish
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04 Mar 2012, 8:50 am

hyperlexian wrote:

Quote:

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

That's perfectly succinct and in this context, a truism.
But still,everyones Still missing the point!

That dead ol' fart,the bart of his generation wrote:

Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

In this context, The fair Ophelia is MrWizardsMom's son
and this is far too dangerous an analogy to take flippantly!

I would suggest the chocolate affirmation
(or whatever treat or toy he enjoys)
So, offer him a chocolate , and ask him if he liked it
Than ask him if he would rather have never been born and never tasted it
or really liked chocolate and there are a million other experiences even better than that that he still doesn't know about yet ?

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slave
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04 Mar 2012, 8:54 pm

I'm Catholic, and my husband and I are raising our children Catholic..........and are letting him find his own way.

LMFAO!! !! !!

the latter can NOT be true if the former is

hyperlexian
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04 Mar 2012, 9:17 pm

slave wrote:

I'm Catholic, and my husband and I are raising our children Catholic..........and are letting him find his own way.

LMFAO!! !! !!

the latter can NOT be true if the former is

why not? i was raised atheist but allowed to find my own way.

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slave
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04 Mar 2012, 9:24 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

slave wrote:

I'm Catholic, and my husband and I are raising our children Catholic..........and are letting him find his own way.

LMFAO!! !! !!

the latter can NOT be true if the former is

why not? i was raised atheist but allowed to find my own way.

They report indoctrinating with with ONE set of beliefs. He was and is NOT free to not participate in his indoctrination into this singular dogma.

hyperlexian
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04 Mar 2012, 9:33 pm

slave wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

slave wrote:

I'm Catholic, and my husband and I are raising our children Catholic..........and are letting him find his own way.

LMFAO!! !! !!

the latter can NOT be true if the former is

why not? i was raised atheist but allowed to find my own way.

They report indoctrinating with with ONE set of beliefs. He was and is NOT free to not participate in his indoctrination into this singular dogma.

sure he is free - he is an atheist in a Catholic household. he is not indoctrinated if he is free to have atheist ideas.

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slave
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04 Mar 2012, 9:47 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

slave wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

slave wrote:

I'm Catholic, and my husband and I are raising our children Catholic..........and are letting him find his own way.

LMFAO!! !! !!

the latter can NOT be true if the former is

why not? i was raised atheist but allowed to find my own way.

They report indoctrinating with with ONE set of beliefs. He was and is NOT free to not participate in his indoctrination into this singular dogma.

sure he is free - he is an atheist in a Catholic household. he is not indoctrinated if he is free to have atheist ideas.

" he is an atheist in a Catholic household"

pls quote what leads you to assert that "he is an atheist"

hyperlexian
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04 Mar 2012, 11:04 pm

you're correct - he is agnostic and not atheist. and he lives in a Catholic household. not sure what you're having trouble with here.

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Ysone
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04 Mar 2012, 11:28 pm

From a philosophical approach existence is something that is irreducible, meaning that it is not something that can be defined any further by any words.
I think you do exist, whether you like it or not. You can choose if you want to live, how you want to live your life, but you exist under any circumstances.
And it is because we don't live forever that we need to make every minute worthwhile.

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modustollens
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05 Mar 2012, 12:39 am

If nothing matters, then it does not matter that nothing matters. We must now draw a distinction between objective "matters" and subjective "matters." From there on out it is up to your son.

Shatbat
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05 Mar 2012, 1:22 am

hyperlexian wrote:

you're correct - he is agnostic and not atheist. and he lives in a Catholic household. not sure what you're having trouble with here.

Keeping with that conversation, there are parents who get really upset when they children don't follow their beliefs, and will try to force them however they can. The boy is certainly more likely to be Catholic than anything else, but in the end he'll have the right to choose.

And about the point of our existance... whenever I think too hard about it I end up lighting a cigarrette and mind you, I don't smoke often (twice a month, more on exams week or with friends). In the end, I think we should just enjoy our life to it's fullest extent, (not getting crazy on our youth, or we may not be able to enjoy our later years) and then when it is time to die, I will die happy and face whatever goes, or doesn't, next. I liked the chocolate analogy someone gave earlier as an explanation to your son.

ZX_SpectrumDisorder
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05 Mar 2012, 3:36 am

I was raised a Catholic, I was even an altar boy until 11 years of age. I renounced Catholicism at 12, then at around 16 I started experimenting with LSD and began drawing parallels between god and Dracula, and entertained myself with the notion that a high percentage of folks out there take Noah's ark as fact because they're afraid and have been taken advantage of.

MrWizardsMom
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05 Mar 2012, 8:11 am

My heartfelt thanks go out to everyone who offered up their notions of existence and shared their stories from childhood. I shared a lot of them with my son last night. I think that he took comfort in the fact that many people like him have struggled with the same questions. I hope he also is taking to heart the idea of making the most of the life that he has now.

The bottom line is that he's afraid of death. I can't much argue with that. I just hope that with time and the support of good people like you, he'll be able to sleep better every night.

Thank you, again!

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05 Mar 2012, 9:18 am

mds_02 wrote:

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do.

Okay, it's a line from a TV show, but that makes it no less true.

If right now is all we have, then we need to make right now as good as it can be.

I agree with that too.

It was from the Angel episode Epiphany.

"Angel: Well, I guess I kinda worked it out. If there's no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters... , then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do. Now. Today. I fought for so long, for redemption, for a reward, and finally just to beat the other guy, but I never got it.
Kate Lockley: And now you do?
Angel: Not all of it. All I wanna do is help. I wanna help because, I don't think people should suffer as they do. Because, if there's no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world.
Kate Lockley: Yikes. It sounds like you've had an epiphany.
Angel: I keep saying that, but nobody's listening."

syzygyish
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06 Mar 2012, 9:10 am

MrWizardsMom wrote:

I hope we helped... well, you said we helped, so that's redundant.
:duh:

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