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whirlingmind
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17 Mar 2013, 10:10 am

Don't worry Tyri0n, I can't bear seeing people ganged up on so if I see it I will try to defend them. I hope you feel I have defended you. Justice and fairness are very important to me.

Sexual harassment is very serious and horrendous to go through, I have been through it myself.

Just to make you feel better, if the photo of the blonde guy in the red t-shirt on your sound cloud thing is you, you are a handsome guy. :flower:

Hope that's boosted your self-esteem.

PS there definitely are things wrong with society!


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nessa238
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17 Mar 2013, 10:14 am

Tyri0n wrote:
It's interesting that a lot of people who are quick to condemn car keying are also people who complained about getting in trouble for sexual harassment in other threads. The question is, which is worse? Sexual assault against a human being, or metal assault against paint?

Yeah, I know I have issues, and I am working on getting help for them. Many other people here are far more quick to blame their problems on everyone else. At least I admit that there's nothing wrong with society, and that the problems I have are all my fault. But it's still interesting that I don't remember people calling Fnord a terrible human and a sociopath being for sexually harassing his receptionist.

I thought Asperger's was about lacking empathy and not following social rules. It would seem that the subject of this thread fits both of these. At least I have never keyed poor people's cars, so I do have some empathy.


I don't think it was stated anywhere that Fnord did harrass the receptionist; he was just accused of doing it by her

More details were asked for, which he didn't provide, but I never accused him of doing it and there wasn't sufficient evidence
to prove anything either way imo



League_Girl
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17 Mar 2013, 10:16 am

Now not keying cars is a social thing and an empathy thing? 8O

This thread is pissing me off, blaming destruction on autism now?


*leaves thread in rage and is through with it*


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XFilesGeek
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17 Mar 2013, 10:24 am

Tyri0n wrote:
Do you ever do this when you are outraged?

I've done this at my apartment complex (at night of course) when I come back from a long, rough day and can't find a parking spot because there are multiple cars without parking permits parked in all crazy directions. And there's nothing like a parking lot full of cars parked every which way to piss me off in the extreme. So I've gone through and keyed all the cars without parking permits.

Do sensory overload and frustration ever cause you to do sociopathic things like this?


If you don't believe in private property rights, why are you upset by people without permits parking in your lot?


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Stoek
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17 Mar 2013, 10:29 am

whirlingmind wrote:
But I believe you can make someone to see the error of their ways without making them feel so small.

He's been called:

stupid and self indulgent
jerk (twice)
a nasty, nasty person
douchebag
twat


...all on top of people explaining why his actions are inadvisable and reminding him he is a criminal and the behaviour is anti-social and destructive. Those things alone were enough without the insults flying.

Like many of us, he has self-esteem issues, name-calling just drags people down further.
I strongly disagree.

The guy broke the rules, in the most absurd of the ways.

Dude truly does deserve stigmatization from WP community.

This is crossing a line, a real line, not just some emotional thing.

By simply rationizing it out to emotional dysfunction is an extreme moral hazard for this site.



Stoek
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17 Mar 2013, 10:30 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
Do you ever do this when you are outraged?

I've done this at my apartment complex (at night of course) when I come back from a long, rough day and can't find a parking spot because there are multiple cars without parking permits parked in all crazy directions. And there's nothing like a parking lot full of cars parked every which way to piss me off in the extreme. So I've gone through and keyed all the cars without parking permits.

Do sensory overload and frustration ever cause you to do sociopathic things like this?


If you don't believe in private property rights, why are you upset by people without permits parking in your lot?
And basic logic swoops in.



Stoek
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17 Mar 2013, 10:32 am

League_Girl wrote:
Now not keying cars is a social thing and an empathy thing? 8O

This thread is pissing me off, blaming destruction on autism now?


*leaves thread in rage and is through with it*


Really though the fact that anyone is supporting him in this by some absurd justification that he is autistic is puzzling.



Tyri0n
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17 Mar 2013, 10:35 am

Stoek wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
But I believe you can make someone to see the error of their ways without making them feel so small.

He's been called:

stupid and self indulgent
jerk (twice)
a nasty, nasty person
douchebag
twat


...all on top of people explaining why his actions are inadvisable and reminding him he is a criminal and the behaviour is anti-social and destructive. Those things alone were enough without the insults flying.

Like many of us, he has self-esteem issues, name-calling just drags people down further.
I strongly disagree.

The guy broke the rules, in the most absurd of the ways.

Dude truly does deserve stigmatization from WP community.

This is crossing a line, a real line, not just some emotional thing.

By simply rationizing it out to emotional dysfunction is an extreme moral hazard for this site.


And people who engage in blatant sexual harassment should be stigmatized also?



fueledbycoffee
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17 Mar 2013, 10:41 am

Interesting. I would also suggest that it has nothing to do with autism. I would say that it has to do with being a bit of a jerk. I'd also say it's perfectly understandable.

I remember that I would get off a long shift, head home to my apartment, and have to park at the school across the street. It was inconvenient. When I was exhausted after unloading trucks for eight hours, it was downright infuriating. Never keyed someones car, though. Certainly thought about it. May have stuck a nail in someone's tire when drunk. Not proud of it.

The fact is, there is nothing about autism that says we are more or less susceptible to kind of being sociopaths, or behaving like them. I have seen many posts in my short time here that indicate that many of the people on this site have difficulty understanding others' perspectives, or stepping outside themselves. With the proper mentality, that could certainly be a decent basis for behaving like that.

Maybe simpler would be saying people are jerks. We all screw up. We all do wretched things. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Sure, you may not have keyed someone's car, but think back. You ever been a jerk to someone for no reason? Ever been cruel? Ever put yourself ahead of others? Spoiler: Answer's yes.

So no, having ASD doesn't make you more or less prone to sociopathic behavior. Being human does.



Callista
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17 Mar 2013, 10:52 am

Tyri0n wrote:
I don't always operate this way. I try to follow rules a lot of the time, and I'm very conscientous a lot of the time, too, at least when I'm depressed.

I've noticed a pattern in me of being high energy and pretty much anti-society but also pretty social and good at picking up nonverbal cues -- and very hypersexual. Then, I spend a few months where I'm a "good guy," a conformist who is very conscientious, but I can't pick up nonverbal cues, and I'm depressed, asexual, and feel like sleeping all the time. It was during one of the latter states that I was DXed as being on the spectrum. I have since come out of it and don't feel as autistic as I did formerly but a lot more angry at the world all the time (I spent the first few months of 2012 dating a girl who normally dated abusive sociopaths; I am never ever abusive towards a girl, but I guess I had that vibe; our relationship fell apart when my personality changed back to "autistic but nice").

I wonder if it's literally possible to be autistic 50% of the time and have a personality disorder the other 50% of the time. So spend 2 months on the spectrum and 2 months as an alienated NT. Then, repeat the cycle. This is how I feel my life has been for several years.

Is it possible to be a part-time aspie? lol
...have you been diagnosed with bipolar disorder or cyclothymia?
I'm wondering, because you describe these cycles, and your "high" cycles have these traits:
--Hypersexual
--High energy
--Risk-taking behavior
--Anger
--Reduced need for sleep
--Elevated mood

And they alternate with depression.

Now, I'm not saying you're ridiculously manic, but that looks like hypomania to me (as an absolutely unqualified, total neophyte to psychology, without even a bachelor's degree). I can't slap a diagnosis on you, but I can say that it might make sense to get this checked out. What if you were able to stabilize your moods somewhere in the middle, so that you'd be neither depressed nor anti-social? I think it would be worth a try.

By the way: I'm not blaming your keying cars on any hypomanic state you may be in. I still think that's a decision you're making, and need to stop making. But it may still be easier to make the right choice if your moods get straightened out.

Quote:
It's interesting that a lot of people who are quick to condemn car keying are also people who complained about getting in trouble for sexual harassment in other threads. The question is, which is worse? Sexual assault against a human being, or metal assault against paint?
It's not the same thing: The people who got accused of sexual harassment didn't actually want to harass anybody; their poor social skills and poor ability to judge someone else's "back off" signals just meant they were perceived as "creepy". Most of the time when they find out they're either mortified or angry that someone would accuse them of doing something so horrible.


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nessa238
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17 Mar 2013, 10:55 am

Callista wrote:
Tyri0n wrote:
I don't always operate this way. I try to follow rules a lot of the time, and I'm very conscientous a lot of the time, too, at least when I'm depressed.

I've noticed a pattern in me of being high energy and pretty much anti-society but also pretty social and good at picking up nonverbal cues -- and very hypersexual. Then, I spend a few months where I'm a "good guy," a conformist who is very conscientious, but I can't pick up nonverbal cues, and I'm depressed, asexual, and feel like sleeping all the time. It was during one of the latter states that I was DXed as being on the spectrum. I have since come out of it and don't feel as autistic as I did formerly but a lot more angry at the world all the time (I spent the first few months of 2012 dating a girl who normally dated abusive sociopaths; I am never ever abusive towards a girl, but I guess I had that vibe; our relationship fell apart when my personality changed back to "autistic but nice").

I wonder if it's literally possible to be autistic 50% of the time and have a personality disorder the other 50% of the time. So spend 2 months on the spectrum and 2 months as an alienated NT. Then, repeat the cycle. This is how I feel my life has been for several years.

Is it possible to be a part-time aspie? lol
...have you been diagnosed with bipolar disorder?
I'm wondering, because you describe these cycles, and your "high" cycles have these traits:
--Hypersexual
--High energy
--Risk-taking behavior
--Anger
--Reduced need for sleep
--Elevated mood

Now, I'm not saying you're ridiculously manic, but that looks like hypomania to me (as an absolutely unqualified, total neophyte to psychology, without even a bachelor's degree). I can't slap a diagnosis on you, but I can say that it might make sense to get this checked out. What if you were able to stabilize your moods somewhere in the middle, so that you'd be neither depressed nor anti-social? I think it would be worth a try.

By the way: I'm not blaming your keying cars on any hypomanic state you may be in. I still think that's a decision you're making, and need to stop making. But it may still be easier to make the right choice if your moods get straightened out.

Quote:
It's interesting that a lot of people who are quick to condemn car keying are also people who complained about getting in trouble for sexual harassment in other threads. The question is, which is worse? Sexual assault against a human being, or metal assault against paint?
It's not the same thing: The people who got accused of sexual harassment didn't actually want to harass anybody; their poor social skills and poor ability to judge someone else's "back off" signals just meant they were perceived as "creepy". Most of the time when they find out they're either mortified or angry that someone would accuse them of doing something so horrible.


I said the same thing a while ago but I'm sure it will be listened to now you've said it



marshall
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17 Mar 2013, 11:01 am

Stoek wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
But I believe you can make someone to see the error of their ways without making them feel so small.

He's been called:

stupid and self indulgent
jerk (twice)
a nasty, nasty person
douchebag
twat


...all on top of people explaining why his actions are inadvisable and reminding him he is a criminal and the behaviour is anti-social and destructive. Those things alone were enough without the insults flying.

Like many of us, he has self-esteem issues, name-calling just drags people down further.
I strongly disagree.

The guy broke the rules, in the most absurd of the ways.

Dude truly does deserve stigmatization from WP community.

This is crossing a line, a real line, not just some emotional thing.

By simply rationizing it out to emotional dysfunction is an extreme moral hazard for this site.


I don't condemn someone just for breaking rules. I would condemn being as as*hole though. From the description in the OP sadly I'd have to conclude that he was being an as*hole when he did that. He had no idea what the circumstances of the owner of every car he keyed was. He just assumed they deserved it. I've parked illegally before because I had to visit somewhere at an hour of the day when there's absolutely no legal place to park and if I wander around for an hour looking I'll be late for my appointment. I'm willing to take responsibility for the risk of getting a parking ticket. As if I'm not stressed enough at not being able to find a place to park if I found my car keyed I'd be pretty irate.



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17 Mar 2013, 11:07 am

Tyri0n wrote:
Yeah, I know I have issues, and I am working on getting help for them. Many other people here are far more quick to blame their problems on everyone else. At least I admit that there's nothing wrong with society, and that the problems I have are all my fault. But it's still interesting that I don't remember people calling Fnord a terrible human and a sociopath being for sexually harassing his receptionist.

Actually, you claim that it is other people's fault that their cars get keyed. They have it coming because they are rich and live in gated communities.

Tyri0n wrote:
I thought Asperger's was about lacking empathy and not following social rules. It would seem that the subject of this thread fits both of these. At least I have never keyed poor people's cars, so I do have some empathy.

You don't know if the cars were owned by "rich" people. Rich people don't deserve to have their cars scratched. That is allll in your mind.


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17 Mar 2013, 11:19 am

It can be easier to deal with the fact that you've done something nasty if you try to rationalize it as "they deserved it". I don't think Tyrion is delusional or anything.

I also don't think he's an irredeemable jerk. We have all done things that were mean; we've all broken rules. Even the naturally rule-following Aspies have probably managed to make some mistakes. You can decide to do something nasty; you can also decide not to do it. I recommend the latter.

nessa238 wrote:
I said the same thing a while ago but I'm sure it will be listened to now you've said it
Yeah, maybe coming from two independent observers it might look more worth checking into. Bipolar/cyclothymia is not exactly rare.


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Notsurprised
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17 Mar 2013, 11:21 am

Depeneding on how the car is insured you could
be doing somebody a favor.
We had cars in the shop where every last panel
had been keyed.
An entire paint job for the prise of the deductable.
Same thing with windsheilds too.



Callista
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17 Mar 2013, 11:23 am

Notsurprised wrote:
Depeneding on how the car is insured you could
be doing somebody a favor.
We had cars in the shop where every last panel
had been keyed.
An entire paint job for the prise of the deductable.
Same thing with windsheilds too.
Heh, don't bet on that. It's like going, "Hey, I can rob this guy; he's got insurance!" Still a hassle to get the thing fixed, and many people don't have insurance that covers damage of that sort.


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