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Edna3362
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25 Aug 2020, 4:55 am

KT67 wrote:
I think I wouldn't have noticed which kids were cool if the uncool kids weren't bullied, sometimes physically. If people hadn't laughed at them.

It's nice that PE is different in different parts of the world.

I wish the culture around it wasn't so toxic here. Where I was from it was even seen as ok for adults/teenagers to laugh at primary school kids who were 4 or 5 if the kid was slow. Sports Day shouldn't be competitive or shouldn't be compulsory/shouldn't invite parents.

And mum says that in all the schools, it's those teachers who bring in the Daily Mail and start conversations about how 'bullying toughens kids up'. I hear in other schools it's the subject that attracts the n....s but in mine, it was science. This good looking science teacher in his 20s had a group of girl followers and did nothing to stop them from idolising him and following him all round school. I don't think he actually did anything but I get creepy vibes off that. And I got DM vibes off the weird geography teacher who only liked white kids whose parents came from the same county as us and the history teacher who taught my mum too (so was old) who used to preach to us about how great the British Empire was.

Mum's dyslexic so she doesn't bring the Guardian into school but she listens to Radio 4 in her car. Same liberal values. A brown-skinned/Polish kid she's teaching has as much value to her as a white British kid she's teaching. Even isn't racist against Travellers. She sees the strengths in autistic kids as well as where they need help. She's a terf but apart from that, she's very inclusive and she hates all bullies.

I wonder if America has severe ableism when it comes to English because of the whole 'spelling bee' thing. Or if that isn't compulsory? It's always stereotyped as 'nerdy' in the media & American culture on the whole hates 'nerds'. But a kid have to fall between not being able to spell 'hat' and being able to spell 'antidisestablishmentarianism' to be seen as 'cool' I think.

When I was at my first secondary although it was still divided like that for sports, a lot more cool points were to do with if you were good at art. Despite getting D grades in art for lack of realism, I was popular in art class. I didn't bully other kids in my school though. In my second secondary, if you didn't have a record you were seen as uncool and a target. That school was really dangerous.

I was good at academics but that loses cool points. The only good thing was that I was (unusually for a lot of aspies) good at humanities/English not good at maths/science (cos dyspraxic). The kids who were good at STEM might have gone on to good jobs but were teased the most. It was important not to be good at those subjects or to even try.

I've yet to truly understand; why is being good at STEM considered 'uncool' there?

Where did the stigma came from other than the 'nerd archetype'?
All I see was the media and it's portrayals.

People here do recognize that the culture there is harsher, competitive.

I also wonder; :o If not many there pursues STEM...
Does that mean UK tend to import a lot of STEM-related workers there? (Just curious, I'm not looking for a job :lol: )
Amongst many other things too.


The idea of compulsory sports is weird. I see it as a voluntary thing, nothing to be forced over.
I would've ran away and hide whether or not I'd be good at it. Coordinated or not, I have my own limits as an autistic.



... The closest mandatory part we got here isn't sports, but music and arts for most part.

Anything related to music most especially popular.
Singing is a huge, huge thing here. To a point it gets noisy.
But at least there's no attempt on ridicule here and still voluntary. Many here happened to be willful whether or not they can carry a tune.

There's just a lot of dancing here too -- it's where most of our PEs go to. The rest of arts; visual, poetry, etc... They're a rare show.


Hah... Bullying makes kids tough, huh? :x Funny, I could've taken that statement too literally or in a different contexts. :lol:
By making a punching bag out of them.
Because I suck at throwing words back, so I throw violence instead.


There's no anti-nerds here. Not really.
More like anti-intellectuals or pseudo-intellects who runs with ego.
Where nerds and non-nerds can be both guilty of...


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FleaOfTheChill
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25 Aug 2020, 7:33 am

I've got my to do list in the back of my mind. I've gotta go to the grocery store today so I need to balance out my day so I'm not too shot to go get food later. I need to put some self care ideas on the list so I don't forget to do that.



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25 Aug 2020, 11:47 am

I think STEM is unpopular because people perceive people who do it as either 'try hard' or somehow being 'different' - and by 'different' they mean they can't detect autism but they can tell that someone thinks differently to them. I know that despite not liking it myself at school, a lot of my friends did because I could relate to them. I knew I was dyspraxic but didn't know I was autistic, just knew I wasn't like a lot of kids.

I think in the UK and USA, popular has two meanings. One just means 'liked by a lot of people', the other is harder to pin down. Like 'cool'. So for eg, everyone has to do maths but it's not cool to admit you enjoy it. I enjoyed arithmetic but I wouldn't have admitted that. I admitted I loved reading and art. Teachers of academic subjects kind of hate 'cool kids' cos part of being 'cool' is not trying hard at academics, especially STEM.

Must have been hard for kids who were neither very academic or very cool.

My dyspraxia does mean I will never be as co-ordinated as my peers. And where I've 'got better' at it (legible handwriting, being able to be understood when I talk), it's due to patient teaching through speech therapy or learning in my own time and pace. Nobody ever taught me to improve my motor skills through anger and red pen and 'I don't believe in dyspraxia'.

I think compulsory sports day is wrong, especially when parents are watching and parents are unkind to other people's children (bear in mind we start school at 5, no adult should mock a 5 year old whether it's based on disability or not). I think compulsory team sports is wrong too. I think compulsory exercise (measured against one's own ability or just for fun and not graded outside of the theory side of it) is a good thing as a lot of kids especially teenagers would rather play on computers or watch TV then go outside and exercise. But in the 90s, most primary school kids played outside anyway so were healthy enough.

I think teachers should pick groups. Not have kids picking each other based on popularity. That just encourages bullies. In a group of 30, unless you're in the middle you do notice who's always last - I know plenty of adults who remember always being last.

Yeah we have a lot of STEM people from abroad, especially Asia, for eg when I did information studies MA, a lot of the bigger lectures were mostly Chinese students and in hospitals there are a lot of Indian doctors, even in smaller towns.


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blooiejagwa
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25 Aug 2020, 11:50 am

I dont know whether youve noticed but it is very possible for teachers to be bullies all grown up and of the same mindset just toned down and subversive for the expected standards . so they wouldnt really mind causing bullying.. where it was possible not to present the opportunity in the first place.


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25 Aug 2020, 3:21 pm

Yeah that's what I'm saying the PE teachers did, they picked the cool kids then the cool kids picked their friends etc til only the 'losers' were left & the 'losers' tended to be autistic or disabled or (feels weird saying this about kids) conventionally unattractive so like the short, fat girls.

I set myself reading targets over and over then beat them lol. This time I set myself a target to get to page 250 by tomorrow and 300 by Saturday and now I'm on 299.


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blooiejagwa
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25 Aug 2020, 5:20 pm

Edna3362 wrote:
KT67 wrote:
I think I wouldn't have noticed which kids were cool if the uncool kids weren't bullied, sometimes physically. If people hadn't laughed at them.

It's nice that PE is different in different parts of the world.

I wish the culture around it wasn't so toxic here. Where I was from it was even seen as ok for adults/teenagers to laugh at primary school kids who were 4 or 5 if the kid was slow. Sports Day shouldn't be competitive or shouldn't be compulsory/shouldn't invite parents.

And mum says that in all the schools, it's those teachers who bring in the Daily Mail and start conversations about how 'bullying toughens kids up'. I hear in other schools it's the subject that attracts the n....s but in mine, it was science. This good looking science teacher in his 20s had a group of girl followers and did nothing to stop them from idolising him and following him all round school. I don't think he actually did anything but I get creepy vibes off that. And I got DM vibes off the weird geography teacher who only liked white kids whose parents came from the same county as us and the history teacher who taught my mum too (so was old) who used to preach to us about how great the British Empire was.

Mum's dyslexic so she doesn't bring the Guardian into school but she listens to Radio 4 in her car. Same liberal values. A brown-skinned/Polish kid she's teaching has as much value to her as a white British kid she's teaching. Even isn't racist against Travellers. She sees the strengths in autistic kids as well as where they need help. She's a terf but apart from that, she's very inclusive and she hates all bullies.

I wonder if America has severe ableism when it comes to English because of the whole 'spelling bee' thing. Or if that isn't compulsory? It's always stereotyped as 'nerdy' in the media & American culture on the whole hates 'nerds'. But a kid have to fall between not being able to spell 'hat' and being able to spell 'antidisestablishmentarianism' to be seen as 'cool' I think.

When I was at my first secondary although it was still divided like that for sports, a lot more cool points were to do with if you were good at art. Despite getting D grades in art for lack of realism, I was popular in art class. I didn't bully other kids in my school though. In my second secondary, if you didn't have a record you were seen as uncool and a target. That school was really dangerous.

I was good at academics but that loses cool points. The only good thing was that I was (unusually for a lot of aspies) good at humanities/English not good at maths/science (cos dyspraxic). The kids who were good at STEM might have gone on to good jobs but were teased the most. It was important not to be good at those subjects or to even try.

I've yet to truly understand; why is being good at STEM considered 'uncool' there?

Where did the stigma came from other than the 'nerd archetype'?
All I see was the media and it's portrayals.

People here do recognize that the culture there is harsher, competitive.

I also wonder; :o If not many there pursues STEM...
Does that mean UK tend to import a lot of STEM-related workers there? (Just curious, I'm not looking for a job :lol: )
Amongst many other things too.


The idea of compulsory sports is weird. I see it as a voluntary thing, nothing to be forced over.
I would've ran away and hide whether or not I'd be good at it. Coordinated or not, I have my own limits as an autistic.



... The closest mandatory part we got here isn't sports, but music and arts for most part.

Anything related to music most especially popular.
Singing is a huge, huge thing here. To a point it gets noisy.
But at least there's no attempt on ridicule here and still voluntary. Many here happened to be willful whether or not they can carry a tune.

There's just a lot of dancing here too -- it's where most of our PEs go to. The rest of arts; visual, poetry, etc... They're a rare show.


Hah... Bullying makes kids tough, huh? :x Funny, I could've taken that statement too literally or in a different contexts. :lol:
By making a punching bag out of them.
Because I suck at throwing words back, so I throw violence instead.


There's no anti-nerds here. Not really.
More like anti-intellectuals or pseudo-intellects who runs with ego.
Where nerds and non-nerds can be both guilty of...


The stigma is a culture shift in Western culture-- ive read about this before how it evolved n mainly to do with influence of movies and such at first.
Seems systematic and intentional in some cases...

In ours the ppl who sucked at maths etc were the ones looker down on 'duffers" etc n the 'nerds' were praised. the other extreme.

The newer générations growing up on cr@p like Cartoon Network (which their lazy parents let them watch even the most disgusting things) Hannah montana Friends etc which mock 'nerds' start mimicking that and other things and there is a huge generation gap just from the influence of this stuff

I only notice it from all the back n forth my family has done.


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25 Aug 2020, 5:37 pm

It's ableist either way.

Not because an athletic, smart at maths kid = able to suffer ableism for being athletic and good at maths.

But because the stigma is either about the 'stupid' kid (who might be that way cos learning difficulties) or the 'autistic seeming' kid.

There's a whole personality trait around being a nerd and most of it I read as autistic traits. Things like being an introvert, preferring the library to parties etc.

I feel bad for dyslexic, dyspraxic kids in our society. Cos teachers praise clever nerdy kids who love reading/maths etc and are bad at sports but nobody praises the kid who hates reading and sports.

Most more physically/more visibly disabled kids I knew at school were either massively looked down on and/or really clever.

The kids who in mum's generation would have been in a special school were really hated and bullied. Even in special ed, they got bullied. This kid (idk his disability) sent this down's syndrome girl a letter saying she was useless and should kill herself :( and when I challenged him on it cos we were all disabled, he said 'yes but people like you and me are still useful people like her aren't '. :x

Ironically, I'm on ESA now. My life still has value and enjoyment for me & people I care about. And in the past I've supervised Down's adults at work. They do have learning difficulties but my colleague could do basic tasks like putting books on shelves when told where to put them.


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blooiejagwa
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25 Aug 2020, 5:46 pm

Oh Edna that explains why the winners at Talent show of singing were always Filipino girls and of piano as well.

And 3-4 Korean girls won a category with Violin playing! At my school.


And 3 Egyptian girls did bellydance performance and 1 syrian girl.

And 1 boy in the audience got all into it and ran on stage to join them in it ..was also Eguptian.

And I swear though it sounds fake...
this one American teacher with Scottish roots (who was the father of my classmate) always did a bagpipe performance to round things off.


All the stereotypes being fulfilled. 8)


Once there was a huge snow storm n my car didn't have snow tyres... So i had to drive very very slowly with my hazard lights flashing--for hours-- what was usually a 50 minute drive...


So i turned on the station and it was an international channel..


First I heard a Pinoy music show that was very pleasant and easygoing nice hosts ..

And thé music was mesmerising.. lasted bout 2 hrs and helped me during most of the tedious drive.


Then there were other things..an Armenian show which was good then a very brief Azerbaijaini show..
..and after that a Somali one which I was not even sure it was a show as it first started with a long Quran narration 8O ..

then the music began.

(I could discern what culture that music was of when I asked my brothers later and mimicked the way they spoke..) But then I arrived..

But the one from philippines had the best music imo. They also did covers of Engliah songs.

They also played the biggest variety with all different types of music. Traditional and rock and piano etc
I gwr kralous of ppl who can do these things as I was the worst in music class to begin with instruments... but also had no rhythm or vocal ability..

My mom tried to teach me to sing but I suck
My mom had won prizes from singing competitions when she was growing up all the way to university.


I actually stay away from music normally as it has a bad effect on me...
Like drugs..
it gets me too into it and later,
I trip more, lose things more often, forget things in the middle of doing them more, more emotional, break items, fall down the stairs more etc.


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blooiejagwa
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25 Aug 2020, 5:55 pm

KT67 wrote:
It's ableist either way.

Not because an athletic, smart at maths kid = able to suffer ableism for being athletic and good at maths.

But because the stigma is either about the 'stupid' kid (who might be that way cos learning difficulties) or the 'autistic seeming' kid.

There's a whole personality trait around being a nerd and most of it I read as autistic traits. Things like being an introvert, preferring the library to parties etc.

I feel bad for dyslexic, dyspraxic kids in our society. Cos teachers praise clever nerdy kids who love reading/maths etc and are bad at sports but nobody praises the kid who hates reading and sports.

Most more physically/more visibly disabled kids I knew at school were either massively looked down on and/or really clever.

The kids who in mum's generation would have been in a special school were really hated and bullied. Even in special ed, they got bullied. This kid (idk his disability) sent this down's syndrome girl a letter saying she was useless and should kill herself :( and when I challenged him on it cos we were all disabled, he said 'yes but people like you and me are still useful people like her aren't '. :x

Ironically, I'm on ESA now. My life still has value and enjoyment for me & people I care about. And in the past I've supervised Down's adults at work. They do have learning difficulties but my colleague could do basic tasks like putting books on shelves when told where to put them.


Wow... These are the types of things you cannot understand unless you experience them.

At least you wrote it so others can realize the type of things that can happen. We often assume good of the more able and blame the weakest link (as a trend in society) ..


My sons mean fired therapist Jennifer L

(i always want to type her name in case anyone with Autistic family member reads this and she might ne working for them they will know she is actually dangerously sick minded and cruel ..And intent on trying to traumatize the client over time.. Si they will know to look for it and protect their family member..but stop at the last name )
Used to call him' useless'
'Burden on society when u grow up
Disgusting
Nobody will like you.nobody would want to be yoyr friend..etc'
With witnesses who told me the same ..
And this when he had done NOTHING wrong but had merely hésitated in things like trying to raise his hand to clap it (which took him years to be able to do)..out of the disability not umwillingness!
So yeah.. I think such ppl choose to work in the field because of the money but also because they get a kick out of bullying non verbal disabled ppl.


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25 Aug 2020, 6:26 pm

A Hindu Indian girl treated me nicely today.
Not in a fake nice way but respect and niceness and subtle kindness. Like an elder cousin might treat you.

The reason I say this is because I was clbecoming convinced in the past that people in indian and/or Hindu families /backgrounds disliked me due to a pattern of things ..
I also struggled to figure out why..
.(even though XHs hindu friend and his wife were nicer to me than anyone else)
I figured they either have the media poison in them or my expressions seem Impudent to them when thats just how I act and their culture wont tolerate imprudence...??
Because ive been told off by many people for my expressions...mom principal sister brother husband etc
And Maybe they decide to be on the defense instantly rather than take chances that
Im just awkward in expected expressions.
However I think when my face is covered people are less perturbed by my expressions...based on today.

Maybe there is something in my way of making expressions that peeves ppl but they ascribed sarcasm or something mean spirited to it due to their media (or their own past bad expériences.)..



due to what's been happening in India etc

I think when people can only see the other person's eyes....


they are nicer in general..
because there is very little room to misinterpret (perceived) icongruity in expressions.

However that girls face was not covered at all and didnt seem mean AT ALL

though I thought she was. ..since her coworker acted so weird and mean and snobby to me.. I assumed there was something annoying or offensive about me but she didnt seem to think so...

I think men who are immature and superficial assume people like me are deserving of meanness by default with no actual reason.


I was (and am) dressed the way someone they make fun of in tv shows might dress .... So that man who had same haircut and body as XH (short with long torsoand btoad shoulders) and same nose AnD close set big eyes like XH has too.. Decided to treat me meanly.


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25 Aug 2020, 6:53 pm

Personally I think you should accept when people tell you you've upset them, and apologize instead of running away...

But that's really none of my business...

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25 Aug 2020, 9:40 pm

Facebook showed me something from 4 years ago (text message screenshot). The message was from my nice brother.

He was messaging me bcuz i wanted him to visit , and babysit.


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26 Aug 2020, 12:19 am

KT67 wrote:
It's ableist either way.

Not because an athletic, smart at maths kid = able to suffer ableism for being athletic and good at maths.

But because the stigma is either about the 'stupid' kid (who might be that way cos learning difficulties) or the 'autistic seeming' kid.

There's a whole personality trait around being a nerd and most of it I read as autistic traits. Things like being an introvert, preferring the library to parties etc.

I feel bad for dyslexic, dyspraxic kids in our society. Cos teachers praise clever nerdy kids who love reading/maths etc and are bad at sports but nobody praises the kid who hates reading and sports.

Most more physically/more visibly disabled kids I knew at school were either massively looked down on and/or really clever.

The kids who in mum's generation would have been in a special school were really hated and bullied. Even in special ed, they got bullied. This kid (idk his disability) sent this down's syndrome girl a letter saying she was useless and should kill herself :( and when I challenged him on it cos we were all disabled, he said 'yes but people like you and me are still useful people like her aren't '. :x

Ironically, I'm on ESA now. My life still has value and enjoyment for me & people I care about. And in the past I've supervised Down's adults at work. They do have learning difficulties but my colleague could do basic tasks like putting books on shelves when told where to put them.

Yes. It's something I haven't experienced.
No wonder I sensed something a bit wrong.


Observations tells me, perhaps, it's what competitive places do.
Competitively fast paced places tend to lace a lot of systematic exclusions and toxic cultures; ableism seems one of the first kind on the list.



The ableisms here are a bit different.
Normally, people had to find any value out of anyone.
Even the outright passive ones than the usual active and goal oriented ones.

It's most of ableisms here are attitudinal or ones out of ignorance.
Systems screws anyone here depending on their class and how convenient it is.


We mostly need knowledge here; medical knowledge. We lack a lot of such.
So there's still countless undiagnosed invisible disabilities out here, surrounded with clueless people...



Therefore I got different priorities too, as much as circumstances.
I want to be reliable to myself and others. The rest are side effects; money, relations, fame, etc.
I don't want to be known as the 'useful' one and based my life and value on how much I earn. I'd attract a lot of unnecessary buzzing here if I do. :o


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26 Aug 2020, 12:46 am

I just got kitty poo on my arm :eew:



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26 Aug 2020, 12:46 am

blooiejagwa wrote:
Oh Edna that explains why the winners at Talent show of singing were always Filipino girls and of piano as well.

And 3-4 Korean girls won a category with Violin playing! At my school.


And 3 Egyptian girls did bellydance performance and 1 syrian girl.

And 1 boy in the audience got all into it and ran on stage to join them in it ..was also Eguptian.

And I swear though it sounds fake...
this one American teacher with Scottish roots (who was the father of my classmate) always did a bagpipe performance to round things off.


All the stereotypes being fulfilled. 8)


Once there was a huge snow storm n my car didn't have snow tyres... So i had to drive very very slowly with my hazard lights flashing--for hours-- what was usually a 50 minute drive...


So i turned on the station and it was an international channel..


First I heard a Pinoy music show that was very pleasant and easygoing nice hosts ..

And thé music was mesmerising.. lasted bout 2 hrs and helped me during most of the tedious drive.


Then there were other things..an Armenian show which was good then a very brief Azerbaijaini show..
..and after that a Somali one which I was not even sure it was a show as it first started with a long Quran narration 8O ..

then the music began.

(I could discern what culture that music was of when I asked my brothers later and mimicked the way they spoke..) But then I arrived..

But the one from philippines had the best music imo. They also did covers of Engliah songs.

They also played the biggest variety with all different types of music. Traditional and rock and piano etc
I gwr kralous of ppl who can do these things as I was the worst in music class to begin with instruments... but also had no rhythm or vocal ability..

My mom tried to teach me to sing but I suck
My mom had won prizes from singing competitions when she was growing up all the way to university.


I actually stay away from music normally as it has a bad effect on me...
Like drugs..
it gets me too into it and later,
I trip more, lose things more often, forget things in the middle of doing them more, more emotional, break items, fall down the stairs more etc.

Music here is just... Plain everywhere. It's just a something-everyday and almost everywhere normal here.
Even in ancient times it seems.

A poster said... :lol: He was torn whether it's his idea of paradise or idea of hell.
I'd assume he's a music lover... With sensory issues at the same time.


My mom... She sings almost everyday.
She never regularly practiced any instruments herself, but she'd still wish to start pursuing it someday and she's past 50.
A guitar... Because my her dad plays it. And in my grandpa's time, he plays on the radio.
In occasion, she DJs on online chatrooms, sings while hosting parties and events...

I hear karaokes here on weekly basis. That's just the neighbors.
Most people here tend to practice hard songs; many would dare emulate. Even really, really bad ones.
Live bands and some choirs, too. At least 2-3 of them on walking distance from my house.

On Christmas there's always a caroler -- I wonder how this works out if the lock downs still in place?


Still... I prefer my practice a secret had I have any time and space for it. :lol:
Mom tried to teach me songs... I just apparently ignored her and she'd do it anyway. I'd just recall the songs.

In other words...
I've known and heard countless songs but... :lol: I don't know almost all of their titles and who sings it. I only know what it sounded like.


Then there was this theory or article or something related to autism; that some autistics tend to sing first before they could speak.
I wonder sometimes... Was this how I bypass my initial lack of verbal aptitudes?


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26 Aug 2020, 8:02 am

That was a really bad school all round.

Seemed like it was preparing kids for a life in the underclass rather than working class life or anything else.

You had to be in a gang. If you weren't in a gang, if you never carried a knife, you were a target of bullies.

And I enjoyed dancing at my old school. Country dancing. And I'd done line dancing before and ballet. So I signed up to do dance as my art module. I had to shift to drama cos all the girls (it was only girls) in the class apart from me were doing as provocative dances as possible. We were 15/16.


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