Men's Discussion

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I want a man men abuse shelter for men for myself a man to go to.

Hi '66. As well as the usual prejudice against males, you may also be using your words in a way that suggests intoxication, which will also get you banned from many shelters. Do you have a friend who can help you deal with applications and interviews?

This year, I was very glad to see Zoom meetings becoming popular, because I live far from cities. Unfortunately, the men's group I joined was moderated by a guy who had his own agenda, and only stirred up my own PTSD. I also think that the men's groups celebrating poetry and/or drumming were a distraction from the modern realities.

Happy International Men's Day. (19th) I'm still restless from a Zoom call with a men's group. I think it might finally be ready to discuss issues such as the general male-bashing in the media, and other low-grade, steady abuse, and its effect on our lives.

This year, I started to encounter situations where I was expected to declare a preference in personal pronouns, such as (he/him). I have finally dug down to the roots of the offence I felt, and I would characterize it as conversion therapy, denying my humanity if I continued to think of humans as basically male or female, instead of a sexual continuum with undefined labels. Besides that, this emphasis buries all other sexual issues, such as those arising from poor socialization. It is probably caused by the torrent of male bashing and the dearth of positive male role models in popular culture. How do you react to the (he/him) labelling crowd?

If i was one of those manly jerks who was raised in a "toxic masculine" environment i would probably say something like "Hey next time in English please" to a post like that. but thats not me, that would be rude inconsiderate.

When it comes to use of pronouns, it's just a pair of short little words that let people know something about you. As for the relatively new acceptance of gender gradients, I'm an empiricist as heart. Whenever society moves closer to reality, I'm all for it. The scientific consensus is clear here. Gender is WAY more complicated that what were were taught in that dumed down biology in high school.

That's just the reality of the situation. IT doesn't say anything about my manhood or my masculinity any more than the fact that evolution in real, that CO2 absorbs in the infrared, or that water is wet.

Adapt and survive, as best you can anyway.

Gender is only complex for a minority of people. The basic function of sex is reproduction by combining genes from two adults of opposite genders, so people almost always like to take on different stereotypical signals even if they are gay. Insisting that it is complex for everyone is just another attack on nature by the "all is nurture" school, which is trying to pretend that humans are uniquely lacking in biological influence in one area, while invoking it in others.

Totally agree with Dear_one, very accurately described.

Likewise, and I ain't no square.

I'm a bit of an idiot, I flirt with my friends wives and girlfriends just for a laugh. I'm now banned from talking to all of them. This is why I don't drink any more. Now I flirt with women in shops, sandwich bars and at work.

nice!...not that you got banned though

That's true. It is a minority. Should society make minor adaptations that help a minority of people? Like... for instance, us autistic people?

I'd like some accommodations. Only fair that I provide them as well, especially since it's just two damned words to let people know how I see myself. If sharing that much about you is "denying you humanity," than WTF are you doing on internet forums expressing any feelings at all?

The offended feeling comes in when almost everyone else using personal pronouns that way also insists that I don't understand gender, and that they are not confused. If society is going to accept anyone's private definition, I should be able to access the women's change room and take a ton of attitude with me.

Dave Chapelle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_EXb8_8xlM and I have had pretty similar histories of a lifetime of tolerance, followed by being attacked. I display a fuller beard than any woman, so I don't like being asked my gender, and have to doubt the sanity of anyone who is confused.

I have been curious about the recent boom in "trans" at the expense of "bisexual" and wonder how much is driven by surgeons out to make a buck. In a parallel debate, someone brought up soup of endocrine disruptors that children are raised on now, and that seems quite valid, but hard to measure. I still think the core of the problem has been the lack of positive messages about straight men, and the steady barrage of negative stereotypes. Anorexia Nervosa is a serious, fatal disorder caused simply by advertising, which convinces some women that they are not thin enough, even as they starve to death. For most people, gender is much more malleable than the desire to eat, so that does not mean they are not victims of manipulation rather than expressions of cellular reality.

If we abandon any objective definition of gender, it will be much harder to have a rational debate about it.

^^^

Ummm....

dude, you're confused.

"Bisexual" is not even close to being a synonym for "transgender" (nor intergender, nor anything like that).

It has to do with whom you like to have sex with, and not with what sex you id as.

There are heterosexuals, and homosexuals, and then there folks who swing both ways. Usually cisgender males or females - but they take on sex partners of either gender. So they are called "bisexual".

So "transgender" is not supplanting "bisexual" any more that the word "cat" is supplanting "dog".

Maybe you're confusing the word "bisexual" with the word "androgynous". Which means someone who is neither very masculine nor very feminine in behavior, or attire, or like that. Which is not as extreme as being "transgender", but is kinda like that.

@Dear_one

It's easy to misunderstand and assume hostility in matters you aren't familiar with...which is somewhat expected when it comes to modern understanding of gender and sexuality. I don't blame you for not understanding, given the circumstance.

That being said, you should probably put more effort into understanding the matters before rising in opposition to it considering that people's lives hang in the balance for it. Suicide rates are high for people with ASD just as it is for lgbt+ people. Just because you don't currently agree with their beliefs doesn't mean their deaths don't matter. And considering that their deaths are caused by lack of acceptance and understanding, it'd be quite hypocritical of you to desire acceptance and understanding for your own qualifications as a minority or discriminated group when your own life is well and secure, or at the very least, better off than the people you're dismissing.

Please understand that asking about your pronouns isn't an affront to your masculinity. It's someone being polite. Many trans people are in the closet, and even many of those out of the closet don't have the allowance to present themselves in public as their preferred gender.

To a trans person, having someone call them by the wrong gender is like having a knife stuck in their chest, which people shake instead of their hand when greeting them.

When someone asks you about your pronouns, they do it because they don't know you and don't want to cause you that kind of pain on the off-chance that you are trans. Consider it a form of expressing their care for your wellbeing, and just treat it like an opportunity to show your pride in your identity as a man. It costs you nothing to say "He him", laugh about it and follow it up with a joke.

As far as overzealous right's activists... just keep in mind that the small but loud and most visible part of a group is not representative of the whole. I'm part of the lgbt+ social group myself, and even I've been chewed out by some rather overzealous people. I also qualify as a racial minority, and have been chewed out by other racial minorities for racial minority stuff.

That's just humanity for you. Over 99% of any type of social group will have its bad apples, and they're likely to be the most visible part of the barrel.