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The War in Ukraine - Thoughts and Ideas

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Who do you support in the war in Ukraine
Russia 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ukraine 100%  100%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 12

ElvenNeko
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22 Sep 2023, 2:58 am

All people know how evil are the invaders. But many don't know that government of Ukraine are trying to compete with them in that matter... they using illegal methods to keep men inside country, they try to drag sick and disabled people into the army while their own healthy children are having fun in cities of Europe, and they increasing their own payments while elderly and disabled are starving due to UAH collapse (but i think that's their plan, to get rid of elderly and disabled).

Life in this country is hell, because on one side there are russians wanting you to die, and on the other - your government, wanting the same. Just 2 days ago my city was hit because our own aa defences was placed inside the city instead of the outside... so debris of rockets fall into the city and kill people. Government does not care. I feel like quick and painless death is the only good way out of this hell.



magz
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22 Sep 2023, 3:28 am

ElvenNeko wrote:
All people know how evil are the invaders. But many don't know that government of Ukraine are trying to compete with them in that matter... they using illegal methods to keep men inside country, they try to drag sick and disabled people into the army while their own healthy children are having fun in cities of Europe, and they increasing their own payments while elderly and disabled are starving due to UAH collapse (but i think that's their plan, to get rid of elderly and disabled).

Life in this country is hell, because on one side there are russians wanting you to die, and on the other - your government, wanting the same. Just 2 days ago my city was hit because our own aa defences was placed inside the city instead of the outside... so debris of rockets fall into the city and kill people. Government does not care. I feel like quick and painless death is the only good way out of this hell.

Yeah, corruption in Ukraine was infamous and of course it didn't disappear overnight just because of being brutally attacked... it's a work for decades to sort it out, possible (we did a lot in the 1990s and early 2000s) but hard and sometimes painful.

Stay safe and prepare for the winter because another round of Battle for Electricity is worryingly likely to happen :heart:


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MaxE
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22 Sep 2023, 5:50 am

funeralxempire wrote:
MaxE wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Who would support Russia, unless they were a Russian in the grip of Russian propaganda?

The Russians are invading an independent state, are the aggressors and deserve to be booted out of Ukraine.

Let's not forget that 20 years ago, the US did the exact same thing in Iraq. Could that be why there are so many apologists for the Russian side in this war in today's US?


There are people who will try to create false equivalencies between the two conflicts, or otherwise attempt to spin things so that Russian imperialism is actually America's fault.

They're wrong.
They're liars.

Russian aggression is the fault of the Russian state and it's leadership.

Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Russia must be destroyed.

I didn't see this because I wasn't being notified of updates to this thread. I don't know what you mean by false equivalency. I don't think Putin's actions were inspired by GW Bush's actions in Iraq. What I do think is that the two actions were equivalent because they were both unilateral invasions of one country by another, with equivalent consequences for those living in the invaded countries. I guess I was saying that some Americans who insist that the invasion of Iraq was an act of patriotism (the Global War on Terrorism) might be inclined to want to excuse Putin.

There are voices in the US who tell us that the Bidens forced Putin's hand due to their collusion with anti-democratic elements in Ukraine including Zelenskyy. I guess they feel that Biden didn't think Putin would have the balls to take action and now he sees the consequences of his earlier foolishness he's cynically claiming "humanitarian" motives for wanting to prop up Zelenskyy and his henchmen.

These voices have been becoming louder in recent months.


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blitzkrieg
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22 Sep 2023, 6:57 am

funeralxempire wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
The Kremlin and their propaganda machine is rather effective. They used to have a channel on digital television services here in the UK, called 'Russia Today' or RT as it was/is known.

Literally every conceivable, regrettable action that Russia was responsible for, was turned upside down to make it as though it was the US's fault or the US's pesky NATO friends in Europe.

Russians probably have some of the best propaganda in the world, in terms of effectiveness and in terms of being believable.


It's not just RT, they also partner with different independent "journalists" to spread talking points. A portion of tankie types and a portion of alt-right types get paid to spread Russian propaganda points.


Interesting. I had not thought of that.