Utopia

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Utopia, can we build it?
The real question is: Why not?
Most people would say we can’t and many have actually tried in the past. But this isn’t the past anymore; new technology has changed our world greatly in the past two decades and I believe that we have enough knowledge, technology and wisdom (not sure about the last one) to actually pull it off.

There are a lot of things to think about and I admit that it is an intimidating project, but why not try it for the sake of fun if nothing else.
Aspies can gather great amounts of information once interested in a subject and there are a lot of subjects to be addressed in a project like this. Further more, a personality test posted on this site (test) indicates the presence of a large percentage of “INTJ” people (myself being one) here. These people are described as “system builders” by the creators of the test and are said to be able to come up with systems that have high efficiency and reliability.

Shall we give it a try?

I know that nothing will happen if I, who suggested the project, don’t do anything; so I’ll work on this even if no one else does.

How to do this?
A city is a number of systems that function in collaboration to maintain human life on a general satisfactory level.
To ensure that, we need to account for everything and I do mean EVERYTHING. This is why I think that no single human can do this alone and a collective of individuals is needed.
Everything is a lot; so we’ll start with the general things and then go to the specifics gradually.

Stage One: Identifying the major systems that would form the city and define the role and general structure of each.
Stage Two: Identify the organizations that would form each system and their specific role and structure.
Stage Three: Identify the individuals who will work in each organization in terms of required skills, personality, resulting life style from their job and social implications of this person’s circumstances that result from their role in their organization.
Stage Four: Account for anything that has not been accounted for so far and expose the city to different scenarios for the sake of testing the functionality and stability of the complete design.

STAGE ONE START
Anyone can participate; suggest a system, suggest a structure for a system, suggest a feature that is needed for a certain system or just comment on whatever you like.
I’ll be the project leader (until decided otherwise) and will organize the systems.
System leaders (anyone who wants to research a certain system and work on it) will be responsible for one system and work one perfecting it.
System assistants will help leaders with suggestions and research.
Supporters will give suggestions when ever they want without holding a constant position in the project.
And anyone who want to comment or discuss anything related is welcomed and their opinions will be ignored *joking*, I mean considered.

I’ll define some systems for starters and see if anyone chips in (if no one does I’ll define all of them alone).

The Information system: This is the system that is responsible for observing the other systems, organizing the work among them and handle information gathering, processing and broadcasting.

The Transport system: This is the system responsible for transporting of individuals and objects inside the city and connects it to the outside world.

The Economical system: This is the system responsible for exporting and importing, production and manufacturing of material and objects for the fulfillment of city needs.

The Maintenance system: This is the system responsible for … maintaining objects and individuals.

The systems may be renamed, redefined or divided into smaller systems, more systems can be added later as we go but stage one ends when enough systems have been defined and structured properly.


I hope I don’t get ignored as usual.

The problem with an Utopia is that everyone's idea of utopian world differs and soon you would have conflicts between what person 1 wants in his utopia and what person 2 definitely doesn't want in hers.

I think it's better to focus on building a place where true freedom exists, though you'd run into many of the same problems I imagine.

Still, it is good for you to put your mind towards considering solutions to problems.

Just make me dictator.

This is not the response that I was hoping for, but it is better than nothing.

@ VIDEODROME
Sure, no problem. What is your doctrine? And how do we execute it?

@ sluice
That is the thing, it is not about what person 1 wants or what person 2 doesn’t, it is about what is needed and what works.
Those who want and do not care about the harm their desires would cause have no place in Utopia.

I believe that there is a place for each and every one of us as long as we look for our needs instead of our desires. If a certain person requires a continuously changing place, we can accommodate for that person who is unlike the majority instead of just ignoring his needs. By doing that we will get Utopia.

A simple example of that is the transportation system. Everyone wants a car or a motorcycle, not half of them deserve it or actually need it as their needs can easily be fulfilled by public transportations. The great number of cars causes traffic jams which stop the needs of everybody, and increase the chances of accidents to almost 100% (Every person who drives a car every day is guaranteed to have an accident at one time or the other).
If we gave cars only to those who actually need them (the handicapped or the people with emergence calls and can’t wait for public transport like doctors or house movers) imagine how much problems we would solve. The only problem we get in return would be a high efficiency public transportation system.
Now what about all those taxi drivers out of job, all those car sellers and car factory workers who will be laid off because not many people need cars and not to mention how hard and expensive installing a new transportation system would be?

I have this to say: taxi drivers have one of the most pathetic jobs on the planet and Utopia should not have many of them (they aren’t needed and their human abilities are better used somewhere else). A more pathetic ob than taxi driving is car selling and that isn’t needed either and we can use the sellers for something better. Factory workers can work in different factories (ones that make something that is actually needed). And the over production of cars has led to huge fields of destroyed cars that are just sitting there rotting away uselessly (we definitely don’t need that). And finally, Utopia is welling to go the extra mile and install that expensive system for the people (it won’t be that expensive if we are the ones designing and making it and it won’t be hard because we are putting it there now before anyone starts to live in the city).

So what would that system be? This is my suggestion:
Public Transportation System
A Telefreak like system where people can ride individual small capsules and punch in their destination, the capsule moves from the station stand to the track and is then controlled by a computer that organizes the paths of all the capsules on the transportation line. The capsule moves out of the line into the destined station. When there are too many empty capsules waiting in a single station, some are moved through the line to the stations that have shortage of them.

You get to the station on foot or with a bicycle and get a capsule from there to take you to the station closest to your destination and continue from there on bicycle or foot. No waiting, no crowds and none of the problems trains have.

Monitoring systems observe the stations that have more passengers getting on than off and redirect empty capsules towards them (though since you have built the city and placed the people there, you would know who needs to go from where to where for work and account for them).
Sounds simple enough and there is no way such a system can’t be created by our current technology.
How hard was that? Transportation problem solved!

Delivery of bulk objects is done by a truck delivery system (Like FedEx) and is divided into two lines:
The automated: a robotic delivery system for routine delivery.
Manned: For larger objects that may require instillation or too heavy to mobilize into needed place. Now these aren't that frequent and do not require a permanent crew. Instead, it is carried on a order bases and a maintenance crew or anyone with a license and free time (delivery licenses may be offered to people who enjoy helping others).
[Delivery system was added after Janissy's suggestion]

I hope to get more minds thinking with me on this because no matter how great I might be, I can’t account for everything alone.

Utopia is an interesting concept, but it would require absolute control over every aspect of its inhabitants' lives to ensure that the perfection would continue. Because Utopia is the perfect society, and perfection is an abstract concept that does not exist outside of the mind, therefore Utopia cannot exist outside the mind -- Utopia is a fantasy. This is because humans are imperfect; we're lazy, selfish, greedy, and prone to fits of anger and depression.

Perhaps the closest we could get to building Utopia would be if we could all realize that Utopia is not possible; thus motivating us to expend some real effort and just take care of the business of "Here and Now".

My idea of Utopia is a world where everybody is accepted just as they are and nobody's trying to fix anybody.

The word "Utopia" comes from the Greek words for "not" and "place", and means "no place". The English homophone "Eutopia" is derived from the Greek words for "good" and "place", and means "good place". This, the identical pronunciations of "Utopia" and "Eutopia" give rise to a double meaning -- A good (or perfect) place that does not (or can not) exist.

A true utopia is impossible. Aside from everyone viewing what a utopia is differently, there are also issues of human greed that would ruin it.

We can all do our part to make the world a better place, but a utopia is impossible to create.

First, what is Utopia? Everyone says that it is different in the eyes of everyone, is it? We all have the same basic needs. If we design a functional city where needs are met, wouldn’t that count as the foundation of Utopia? From there, we either accommodate for the none-harming desires and restrict or modify harming ones. It won’t be easy and it may be impossible, but what do we lose in trying? And no matter how far we remain from Utopia we will still get to somewhere that is better than here, no?

Fnord
The only reason Utopia doesn’t exist outside the mind is because the mind would not allow it to. We surrender to our short comings and imperfection and just give up without ever trying. I am sure the people who risked their lives to invent flying machines didn’t think that way, and I am also sure that many people told them that flight is impossible and it’s just a dream in the mind.
And “no place” is not a “never place”, it wasn’t made yet and humans who don’t know EVERYTHING can not (and should not) deny the possibility of anything’s existence.

CockneyRebel
Sure, nice idea. How do we get that in our city? Or do I have to think about as well?

persian85033 & sluice
Total freedom can only be given to humans who are responsible to handle it, now guess who isn’t. When presented with every possible option and no restriction on choice, have no doubt that there will always be that idiot who will make the worst possible decision with any amount of imaginable illogical reasons and screw everything up. Humans need restriction.

Thewhitrbbit
Your “everybody does their part” plan doesn’t work; we’ve been trying it for 7 thousand years and this is how far it got us.

Janissy
I am so happy that someone actually read what I wrote and thought about it!
You have no idea how helpful your post is.

First, the government doesn’t control transportation, just manage it. People decide where they want to go by selecting their destination after getting in the capsule.

As for cabs, they are only needed when stations are too far from your goal, which can be solved by strategically locating your stations (and since not everyone has to stop when someone wants to stop at the station, you can have as many stations as you want) and designing the shape and dimensions of your city carefully (which isn’t hard since you are making a new one). As for safety, you assume that the city isn’t safe which is not the case as we will design a very high efficiency crime control system (there are many solutions to that) and in a city where everyone gets what they need, crime is expected to be uncommon.

Now the dangerous thing about your statement is that you want a good number of human beings to serve in your city as a substitute to… HORSES! The convenience of having cabs comes with the horrible price the people who have to operate them have to pay, does this sound fair? Do you want to be a cab driver? I doubt anyone does.

And now here is some constructive thinking (FINALLY).
I didn’t mention them (intentionally) in hops of letting someone notice and fill in the blank (which worked!). Trucks are needed ofc and will be transporting goods to stores and deliver purchased items to your door steps (like FedEx or such) on daily bases.
Now we address trucks. Anything else?
Now the transportation system is more complete, is it perfect? I am not sure but we can work on it.
(First post edited, trucks added to the system)

You see what is happening here? You helped me see a need that wasn’t visible to me. I already stated that I can’t account for everything alone and that with help of others we can foresee most if not all of our needs. We have been around for 7 thousand years, if we are still not smart enough to figure a way for us to live while fulfilling our needs then we don’t deserve to call ourselves the most intelligent race on the planet.

I have never heard of a great effort to design a high efficiency city (not sure why) and I believe that with enough people putting their minds together, we can come up with something (maybe not Utopia but something). The “Organically grown communities” you talk about usually grow without much planning from small villages to towns to congested cities with development driven by personal or commercial needs rather than careful and thoughtful planning. Can’t we plan something in which an organic society can exist and grow to better level?

Help out for fun if not for anything else. Play along and see where it takes us.

How about religion in Utopia? Do we tolerate multiple religions? What if one religion commands it's followers to be charitable and use their vehicles to ferry people back and forth from one location to another? Do we tell them that this is "pathetic?" Music and art, who determines what is good, and what isn't? What happens to car salesmen who really, really liked their job before they were forced to switched jobs? Are they considered pathetic too?

What are our standards for food? Can we have sugar? How about exercise, is there a standardized system that we all must follow? What if the government thinks Spongebob is bad for kids? Will I be arrested if I make the informed decision that my son can watch one episode of spongebob, but that's it. will the government support that decision?

How about people in wheelchairs, will the transportation system be handicap accessable?

What about speech restrictions, like no cussing at work? I have a really bad potty mouth, will I be allowed to work on my cussing or simply fired or arrested?

What if I hate Utopia and want to stand on a soap box in town square and talk smack about it, will I be allowed to or will I be killed or arrested?

Will I be allowed to watch the movie 1984?

Is 2+2=5?

Those are good questions. It would seem that Utopia would have too many rules. It would be almost as bad as any non-Utopian society.

What Utopia would really be would be no rules, meaning basically no society. Maybe we could invent robots, reduce the human population, everybody live on a really huge patch of land, have a nice house, not have to see anyone when you don't want to, do whatever you want. People could communicate over the internet, and the robots would cultivate crops(not many because the human population would be so low, anyway)and work in the mines, and well, basically do all the work, really, including the housework, of course. I would then invest my time in going swimminig, riding, spending long hours reading, writing, napping, and designing new furniture for all the pets I'll keep. I'll also keep rabbits, chickens, and goats. Just leave all the work to the robots, and I'll dedicate my life to making myself happy. The only 'society' would be my robot servants, and plants and animals. Why, with a little imagination, and forgetting about the other people, one could almost feel as though one were master of the world.