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naturalplastic
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04 Nov 2020, 6:24 pm

You may scoff...but not after you see this photograph of an entire force of UFOs, arrayed in strict military columns, attacking the Traveler's Insurance Building in Hartford Connecticut!


link



cyberdad
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04 Nov 2020, 6:46 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
You may scoff...but not after you see this photograph of an entire force of UFOs, arrayed in strict military columns, attacking the Traveler's Insurance Building in Hartford Connecticut!


They forgot to remove the string on one of them :lol:



naturalplastic
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04 Nov 2020, 7:37 pm

Actually dont know what that thing that looks like a string is. Prolly a trickle of water.

Those arent balloons, but rivet heads on a bridge - both the building and the rivets are reflected on the wet steel from the rain. And the pic is just turned upside down. :lol:



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04 Nov 2020, 8:03 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Actually dont know what that thing that looks like a string is. Prolly a trickle of water.

Those arent balloons, but rivet heads on a bridge - both the building and the rivets are reflected on the wet steel from the rain. And the pic is just turned upside down. :lol:


Ahh ok, well then that really is the "power of perception" :lol:

I really did see them as balloons.



magz
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05 Nov 2020, 5:32 am

Systematic reaction to an extraordinary claim:
1. What exactly have been observed? (without interpretation - lights, sounds, movements, their timing and placement);
2. Are the observations objective and measurable? If not, it's not the domain of science (e.g. spiritual experiences).
3. Are there possible ordinary explanations of the observed phenomena? If yes, stop.
4. Are there possible extraordinary but known to science explanations? (e.g. rare optical phenomena, hallucinations) If yes, investigate their possibility.
5. Are there possible explanations not known to science but within its reach? (e.g. an unknown animal species, unknown physical phenomenon) If yes, wow, that's exciting, investigate and try to get definitive proof!
6. Is anything left?


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cyberdad
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05 Nov 2020, 5:50 am

magz wrote:
Systematic reaction to an extraordinary claim:
1. What exactly have been observed? (without interpretation - lights, sounds, movements, their timing and placement);


At your point 1 what's been observed has 7 charactetistics that defy explanation
a. anti-gravity lift
b. sudden and instantaneous acceleration
c. hypersonic velocities without any heat signature
d. low observability and the ability to cloak
e. transmedium travel through water, air and space
f. intelligent control
h. multiple witnesses seeing the same objects who are willing to testify in front of a court who are highly competent and experienced observers from airforce, military, navy, nuclear bases and police witnessing objects in clear daylight and good weather.

So we are not dealing with the local town drunk seeing swamp gas, flock of geese or knocking their head and seeing stars in the middle of the night as some skeptics would have us believe.



cubedemon6073
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05 Nov 2020, 5:55 am

magz wrote:
Systematic reaction to an extraordinary claim:
1. What exactly have been observed? (without interpretation - lights, sounds, movements, their timing and placement);
2. Are the observations objective and measurable? If not, it's not the domain of science (e.g. spiritual experiences).
3. Are there possible ordinary explanations of the observed phenomena? If yes, stop.
4. Are there possible extraordinary but known to science explanations? (e.g. rare optical phenomena, hallucinations) If yes, investigate their possibility.
5. Are there possible explanations not known to science but within its reach? (e.g. an unknown animal species, unknown physical phenomenon) If yes, wow, that's exciting, investigate and try to get definitive proof!
6. Is anything left?


That's the problem! There is no such thing as "without interpretation."



magz
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05 Nov 2020, 6:03 am

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
Systematic reaction to an extraordinary claim:
1. What exactly have been observed? (without interpretation - lights, sounds, movements, their timing and placement);


At your point 1 what's been observed has 7 charactetistics that defy explanation
a. anti-gravity lift
reduce to "observed object moving upwards"
cyberdad wrote:
b. sudden and instantaneous acceleration
c. hypersonic velocities without any heat signature
These are interpretations - a visible object moving this way could be e.g. laser pointer dot.
cyberdad wrote:
d. low observability and the ability to cloak
Reduce to "barely visible/disappearing"
cyberdad wrote:
e. transmedium travel through water, air and space
Laser dot again? Or several other optical phenomena.
cyberdad wrote:
f. intelligent control
Interpretation again / there are lots of more or less intelligently controlled objects in the nature - animals, piloted vehicles, drones, the laser dot...
cyberdad wrote:
h. multiple witnesses seeing the same objects who are willing to testify in front of a court who are highly competent and experienced observers from airforce, military, navy, nuclear bases and police witnessing objects in clear daylight and good weather.
Points 3, 4, 5, 6 on my list, in this sequence.
cyberdad wrote:
So we are not dealing with the local town drunk seeing swamp gas, flock of geese or knocking their head and seeing stars in the middle of the night as some skeptics would have us believe.
Neither am I.


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magz
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05 Nov 2020, 6:19 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
That's the problem! There is no such thing as "without interpretation."

This is true.
A lot of scientific method is all about getting to as raw data as possible.

An example of what I mean in this point: "I saw an alien spacecraft" should be relplaced by "I saw a moving bright object of shape <...>, colors <...>, time <...>, standing <here>, looking <that> direction. It moved <like that>."


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Fnord
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05 Nov 2020, 9:29 am

magz wrote:
... A lot of scientific method is all about getting to as raw data as possible.

An example of what I mean in this point: "I saw an alien spacecraft" should be replaced by "I saw a moving bright object of shape <...>, colors <...>, time <...>, standing <here>, looking <that> direction. It moved <like that>."
The original statement is more like, "I saw an alien spacecraft made of some kind of titanium alloy with at least three grey-skinned lizard people at the controls who have come to Earth to kidnap us, probe our anuses, and steal our DNA to further their plot to replace our wealthiest people with lizard-human hybrids under their control."

Why stick to facts when fantasy is much more entertaining?

:roll: That last line was sarcasm, folks!



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05 Nov 2020, 9:39 am

Fnord wrote:
Why stick to facts when fantasy is much more entertaining?

Belles-lettres can be very valuable.


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05 Nov 2020, 9:42 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Why stick to facts when fantasy is much more entertaining?
Belles-lettres can be very valuable.
Only if they become "Best-Sellers".



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05 Nov 2020, 9:56 am

cyberdad wrote:
a. anti-gravity lift
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
b. sudden and instantaneous acceleration
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
c. hypersonic velocities without any heat signature
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
d. low observability and the ability to cloak
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
e. transmedium travel through water, air and space
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
f. intelligent control
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
h. multiple witnesses seeing the same objects who are willing to testify in front of a court who are highly competent and experienced observers from airforce, military, navy, nuclear bases and police witnessing objects in clear daylight and good weather.
Again, we come back to Magz's "Systematic Reaction to Extraordinary Claims"...
Magz wrote:
1. What exactly have been observed? (without interpretation - lights, sounds, movements, their timing and placement);

2. Are the observations objective and measurable?

3. Are there possible ordinary explanations of the observed phenomena?

4. Are there possible extraordinary but known to science explanations?

5. Are there possible explanations not known to science but within its reach?
This is where all accounts of alleged space-alien invasions, cryptozoologic encounters, and paranormal phenomena break down -- a detailed and methodical examination of all available facts reveal how few facts there really are, and if there are really any facts at all.



cyberdad
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06 Nov 2020, 12:46 am

Actually the information I posted is from the US-Pentagon sponsored AATIP program.
https://fas.org/irp/dia/aatip-list.pdf
https://www.history.com/news/ufo-sighti ... e-movement

The US-pentagon released videos of three craft/objects that display 5 of the 7 characteristics I posted
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... avy-pilots

These are are observable according to both the videos and according to witness statements.

The approach of searching for laser dots, planet venus or some other explanation is fine except the checklist has been ticked off and the pentagon came up with no explanation which is why they released the video footage to the public.

There is now a proforma for serving military/airforce/navy to fill in when they see object they can't explain. The fundamental issue is that you can't have incursions into US airspace that are a potential threat to nuclear facilities.

The other approach of negating a witness until the observation can be explained as a weather phenomena or a trick of the eye is totally unscientific. As I said most of these witnesses are professionally trained to search the skies for enemy craft, particularly around nuclear stations or nuclear ships. If it was a court of law they would be considered excellent witnesses. In addition the observed "bogeys" are recorded on radar in addition by sight. The evidence is mighty impressive.



cubedemon6073
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06 Nov 2020, 12:50 am

Fnord wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
a. anti-gravity lift
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
b. sudden and instantaneous acceleration
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
c. hypersonic velocities without any heat signature
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
d. low observability and the ability to cloak
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
e. transmedium travel through water, air and space
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
f. intelligent control
Evidence, please?
cyberdad wrote:
h. multiple witnesses seeing the same objects who are willing to testify in front of a court who are highly competent and experienced observers from airforce, military, navy, nuclear bases and police witnessing objects in clear daylight and good weather.
Again, we come back to Magz's "Systematic Reaction to Extraordinary Claims"...
Magz wrote:
1. What exactly have been observed? (without interpretation - lights, sounds, movements, their timing and placement);

2. Are the observations objective and measurable?

3. Are there possible ordinary explanations of the observed phenomena?

4. Are there possible extraordinary but known to science explanations?

5. Are there possible explanations not known to science but within its reach?
This is where all accounts of alleged space-alien invasions, cryptozoologic encounters, and paranormal phenomena break down -- a detailed and methodical examination of all available facts reveal how few facts there really are, and if there are really any facts at all.


For a here is some evidence. Trump blows so much hot air that his supporters are lifted up by his BS.