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DuckHairback
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20 Nov 2024, 6:08 pm

Oh oily, oh boily.


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20 Nov 2024, 6:32 pm

May I borrow your cauldron when you're done?



cecilfienkelstien
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21 Nov 2024, 9:45 am

I have a busy shift on campus today. I will earn my money today.


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21 Nov 2024, 11:57 pm

It's been 30 years since I had a crush on anyone.


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22 Nov 2024, 12:07 am

I wonder if dogs will ever evolve to stand and walk on two legs.


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22 Nov 2024, 12:22 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
I wonder if dogs will ever evolve to stand and walk on two legs.


They don't have very useful hands, so they have little to gain by even sometimes walking on two. They'd need raccoon hands (or similar) for some sort of pressure in that direction to exist.

Two common misunderstandings about evolution:

One is that it has a goal, when literally there's no guidance beyond responding to pressures and opportunities. Humans didn't come to be how we are because that's the goal. Every other lifeform is just as evolved as we are, just for different niches.

The other is that humans had a knuckle walking ancestor. Basal apes moved more like gibbons or humans than like chimps or gorillas. Each ape that knuckle walks evolved that behaviour independently, as evidenced by them all doing it differently. Archaic humans are what happens when an already upright ape that hangs with it's arms gradually becomes more suitable for walking and running (and also throwing), even if it means giving up a lot of climbing ability.

We already had dexterous hands for climbing and that's why they ended up being useful for handling tools as well. If dogs made and used tools they'd probably manipulate them with their mouths because their front paws are already too specialized for running.


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utterly absurd
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22 Nov 2024, 12:52 am

funeralxempire wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I wonder if dogs will ever evolve to stand and walk on two legs.


They don't have very useful hands, so they have little to gain by even sometimes walking on two. They'd need raccoon hands (or similar) for some sort of pressure in that direction to exist.

Two common misunderstandings about evolution:

One is that it has a goal, when literally there's no guidance beyond responding to pressures and opportunities. Humans didn't come to be how we are because that's the goal. Every other lifeform is just as evolved as we are, just for different niches.

The other is that humans had a knuckle walking ancestor. Basal apes moved more like gibbons or humans than like chimps or gorillas. Each ape that knuckle walks evolved that behaviour independently, as evidenced by them all doing it differently. Archaic humans are what happens when an already upright ape that hangs with it's arms gradually becomes more suitable for walking and running (and also throwing), even if it means giving up a lot of climbing ability.

We already had dexterous hands for climbing and that's why they ended up being useful for handling tools as well. If dogs made and used tools they'd probably manipulate them with their mouths because their front paws are already too specialized for running.

True, but there's no way to know what might happen very far in the future. 500 million years ago no one would've guessed that a fish would evolve into a weird upright land animal, but here we are.

To clarify, everything you're saying is right but it becomes less accurate the farther into the future we go. That is, if the world lasts that long.


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Carbonhalo
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22 Nov 2024, 12:58 am

Evolve? unlikely, but uplifted? Quite probably.
David Brin's "Uplift" trilogy is a great sci fi read.



funeralxempire
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22 Nov 2024, 1:01 am

utterly absurd wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I wonder if dogs will ever evolve to stand and walk on two legs.


They don't have very useful hands, so they have little to gain by even sometimes walking on two. They'd need raccoon hands (or similar) for some sort of pressure in that direction to exist.

Two common misunderstandings about evolution:

One is that it has a goal, when literally there's no guidance beyond responding to pressures and opportunities. Humans didn't come to be how we are because that's the goal. Every other lifeform is just as evolved as we are, just for different niches.

The other is that humans had a knuckle walking ancestor. Basal apes moved more like gibbons or humans than like chimps or gorillas. Each ape that knuckle walks evolved that behaviour independently, as evidenced by them all doing it differently. Archaic humans are what happens when an already upright ape that hangs with it's arms gradually becomes more suitable for walking and running (and also throwing), even if it means giving up a lot of climbing ability.

We already had dexterous hands for climbing and that's why they ended up being useful for handling tools as well. If dogs made and used tools they'd probably manipulate them with their mouths because their front paws are already too specialized for running.

True, but there's no way to know what might happen very far in the future. 500 million years ago no one would've guessed that a fish would evolve into a weird upright land animal, but here we are.


No, but you can discuss likelihood.

For example, flightless birds haven't evolved hands, they've evolved vestigial wings. Hands would be much more useful, but it's unlikely any flightless bird will have useful hands emerge from the deformed leftovers of hands that wings evolved from.

That's a more extreme but similar comparison as with dogs developing hands.

Canids in general are pretty specialized for the niche of pursuit predator and scavenger. Usually when life goes through a bottleneck the specialists get wiped out and generalists adapt into specialists to fill the opened niches. It's rare for a specialist to be pressured into becoming a different specialist.

With that in mind it's more likely that dogs (and humans) would get wiped out during the bottle neck, rather than sticking around to contribute significantly to whatever happens afterwards.


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22 Nov 2024, 1:02 am

Carbonhalo wrote:
Evolve? unlikely, but uplifted? Quite probably.
David Brin's "Uplift" trilogy is a great sci fi read.


Anything is possible in fiction, because it's ultimately just imagination and speculation.


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22 Nov 2024, 1:12 am

funeralxempire wrote:
No, but you can discuss likelihood.

For example, flightless birds haven't evolved hands, they've evolved vestigial wings. Hands would be much more useful, but it's unlikely any flightless bird will have useful hands emerge from the deformed leftovers of hands that wings evolved from.

That's a more extreme but similar comparison as with dogs developing hands.

Canids in general are pretty specialized for the niche of pursuit predator and scavenger. Usually when life goes through a bottleneck the specialists get wiped out and generalists adapt into specialists to fill the opened niches. It's rare for a specialist to be pressured into becoming a different specialist.

With that in mind it's more likely that dogs (and humans) would get wiped out during the bottle neck, rather than sticking around to contribute significantly to whatever happens afterwards.


Yes. That's pretty much what I meant, just that we can be a lot less confident talking about, say, 100 million years in the future than 1 million years. I was more adding to your point than disagreeing.

Of course, domestic dogs are entirely dependent on humans, so when we go, they go with us.


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funeralxempire
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22 Nov 2024, 1:23 am

utterly absurd wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
No, but you can discuss likelihood.

For example, flightless birds haven't evolved hands, they've evolved vestigial wings. Hands would be much more useful, but it's unlikely any flightless bird will have useful hands emerge from the deformed leftovers of hands that wings evolved from.

That's a more extreme but similar comparison as with dogs developing hands.

Canids in general are pretty specialized for the niche of pursuit predator and scavenger. Usually when life goes through a bottleneck the specialists get wiped out and generalists adapt into specialists to fill the opened niches. It's rare for a specialist to be pressured into becoming a different specialist.

With that in mind it's more likely that dogs (and humans) would get wiped out during the bottle neck, rather than sticking around to contribute significantly to whatever happens afterwards.


Yes. That's pretty much what I meant, just that we can be a lot less confident talking about, say, 100 million years in the future than 1 million years. I was more adding to your point than disagreeing.

Of course, domestic dogs are entirely dependent on humans, so when we go, they go with us.


I just don't like leaving false hope, when it's very unlikely.

It's like when I was told I could be anything I want when no, literally I can't be anything I want. :lol:


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22 Nov 2024, 1:32 am

funeralxempire wrote:

I just don't like leaving false hope, when it's very unlikely.

It's like when I was told I could be anything I want when no, literally I can't be anything I want. :lol:


I think when I was told that I said "well I want to be a cat". So far that hasn't worked out. :lol:


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22 Nov 2024, 5:11 am

i have been raised from the dead 8O


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22 Nov 2024, 5:45 am

Good

I always wonder why odd numbers are called odd numbers and even numbers are called even numbers

Because in my head 25 is and always has been an even number

There's just something about the number 25 that feels very even


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cecilfienkelstien
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22 Nov 2024, 9:24 am

Seeing my autism worker today.


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