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Did we really go to the moon ?

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kitesandtrainsandcats
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05 Jan 2023, 1:26 am

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Apr 2, 2015
Only one side of the Moon ever faces us because Earth's force of gravity on it is not uniform. This is related to our ocean tides and a lengthening of days on Earth. Duration: 7:58.



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Zeke the alien
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05 Jan 2023, 1:32 am

I mean, I've never seen the Statue of Liberty in person, so how do I know it's real and not CGI?

Sarcasm aside, I think that the moon landing would be a very weird thing to fake, what would the point in lying about such a thing? It just seems like an odd thing to lie about all things considered.


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Last edited by Zeke the alien on 05 Jan 2023, 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

auntblabby
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05 Jan 2023, 1:34 am

the soviets verified that we did not fake it.



Radish
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05 Jan 2023, 4:12 am

auntblabby wrote:
the soviets verified that we did not fake it.


Yes, you can bet your bottom dollar that the Russians had their radio telescopes tracking all the signals coming from the spacecraft for the journey there, while on the moon and on the return journey. They'd be the first to point out if it was all staged, they'd make America the laughing stock of the world if they tried to fake it.

I'm amazed that there are still so many gullible / uneducated people who believe in various ridiculous conspiracy theories.


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auntblabby
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05 Jan 2023, 4:28 am

Radish wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the soviets verified that we did not fake it.


Yes, you can bet your bottom dollar that the Russians had their radio telescopes tracking all the signals coming from the spacecraft for the journey there, while on the moon and on the return journey. They'd be the first to point out if it was all staged, they'd make America the laughing stock of the world if they tried to fake it.

I'm amazed that there are still so many gullible / uneducated people who believe in various ridiculous conspiracy theories.

but it makes entertaining alternative history fictions to while away an afternoon.



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05 Jan 2023, 5:51 am

Radish wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the soviets verified that we did not fake it.


Yes, you can bet your bottom dollar that the Russians had their radio telescopes tracking all the signals coming from the spacecraft for the journey there, while on the moon and on the return journey. They'd be the first to point out if it was all staged, they'd make America the laughing stock of the world if they tried to fake it.

I'm amazed that there are still so many gullible / uneducated people who believe in various ridiculous conspiracy theories.


Agreed.
In addition, I'm amazed that there are still so many gullible / uneducated people who disbelieve various rational conspiracy theories that the establishment pretends are invalid.
Consider: "The Origins of Covid" and "Electronic Harassment". 8)



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05 Jan 2023, 6:43 am

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of lying about the moon landing would be.

If word got out to the Soviets that we faked the moon landing, they'd use that against us to get countries that were once allied with America to join the Warsaw Pact.

It dosen't seem like it's a cover story for anything unless you want to say that it was a nuclear arms test in disguise, which, I'll play devil's advocate and say that it was a cover up for a nuclear arms test, why tell the American people about said arms test at all, none the less disguising it as a trip to the moon?

If it was to cover up that the Earth was flat, then why does a ship seem to sink as it sails away from you across the horizon? Why do elite snipers have to train themselves to calculate for the curvature of the Earth? Why are airplanes' flight patterns so weird? All questions that flat Earth theory will never explain.

I really can't just think of a good reason to lie about the lunar landing. I might be inclined to believe this theory if I was given one good reason as to why they would lie about the lunar landing, just seems like a weird thing to lie about in the grand scheme of things...


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Radish
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05 Jan 2023, 7:42 am

Zeke the alien wrote:
If it was to cover up that the Earth was flat, then why does a ship seem to sink as it sails away from you across the horizon? Why do elite snipers have to train themselves to calculate for the curvature of the Earth? Why are airplanes' flight patterns so weird? All questions that flat Earth theory will never explain.


Flat earth nonsense can be easily dismissed by considering day and night and how/when they appear around the world as this simple graphic shows:

Image


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auntblabby
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05 Jan 2023, 8:09 am

Radish wrote:
Zeke the alien wrote:
If it was to cover up that the Earth was flat, then why does a ship seem to sink as it sails away from you across the horizon? Why do elite snipers have to train themselves to calculate for the curvature of the Earth? Why are airplanes' flight patterns so weird? All questions that flat Earth theory will never explain.


Flat earth nonsense can be easily dismissed by considering day and night and how/when they appear around the world as this simple graphic shows:

Image

to understand that "nuance" requires some intelligence. average IQ for many decades in america was 100. it may have gone down some from that high. many will not make the mark, thus marking themselves as easy marks for people peddling cowplop dressed as "facts."



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05 Jan 2023, 8:23 am

Zeke the alien wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out what the point of lying about the moon landing would be.

If word got out to the Soviets that we faked the moon landing, they'd use that against us to get countries that were once allied with America to join the Warsaw Pact.

It dosen't seem like it's a cover story for anything unless you want to say that it was a nuclear arms test in disguise, which, I'll play devil's advocate and say that it was a cover up for a nuclear arms test, why tell the American people about said arms test at all, none the less disguising it as a trip to the moon?

If it was to cover up that the Earth was flat, then why does a ship seem to sink as it sails away from you across the horizon? Why do elite snipers have to train themselves to calculate for the curvature of the Earth? Why are airplanes' flight patterns so weird? All questions that flat Earth theory will never explain.

I really can't just think of a good reason to lie about the lunar landing. I might be inclined to believe this theory if I was given one good reason as to why they would lie about the lunar landing, just seems like a weird thing to lie about in the grand scheme of things...


I am not a history buff, but I think the general consensus among the non-believers is that the CIA did it to make us seem superior to the USSR. I never cared about any of it until I watched the guy on youtube who analyzed the statements of the astronauts involved and concluded that they are all being deceptive in their stories. For example, when he returned one of the astronauts was on a TV show and was asked to tell about the experience of seeing and landing on the moon and he was extremely vague. Like the expectation of anyone who landed on the moon would be using descriptive terms and imagery, you know? In detail. Because of the awesomeness of the whole deal. But none of them elaborated at all from what I understand.

Which leads me to think they did not experience it at all, but just were supposed to pretend they did.?


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05 Jan 2023, 8:31 am

auntblabby wrote:
to understand that "nuance" requires some intelligence. average IQ for many decades in america was 100. it may have gone down some from that high. many will not make the mark, thus marking themselves as easy marks for people peddling cowplop dressed as "facts."


The biggest problem I found when debating flat earthers / creationists / moon landing conspirators / covid deniers etc is that they arrived at their opinion based upon belief not rationality. So even when presented with overwhelming rational evidence and multiple verifiable facts that they are incorrect, they won't budge an inch, clinging to their unfounded beliefs instead. So a complete waste of my time and patience trying to debate them. I just leave such folks to wade around in their own make-belief nowadays. I've moved on. Better things to do with my time.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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05 Jan 2023, 10:05 am

MissMary227 wrote:
For example, when he returned one of the astronauts was on a TV show and was asked to tell about the experience of seeing and landing on the moon and he was[i] extremely vague.


That is not a legitimate reason.

Who would expect a military test pilot to behave the same way an experienced celebrity would when thrust in to the pressure of being on camera?

Except for a few scientists the Apollo Astronauts were military pilots. Poetic composition and emotive exposition are neither job requirements nor job skills are are totally not encouraged when on the job.


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05 Jan 2023, 10:09 am

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
MissMary227 wrote:
For example, when he returned one of the astronauts was on a TV show and was asked to tell about the experience of seeing and landing on the moon and he was[i] extremely vague.


That is not a legitimate reason.

Who would expect a military test pilot to behave the same way an experienced celebrity would when thrust in to the pressure of being on camera?

Except for a few scientists the Apollo Astronauts were military pilots. Poetic composition and emotive exposition are neither job requirements nor job skills are are totally not encouraged when on the job.


It's not a crime to be vague. But along with everything else, it's just suspicious is all. Is there any descriptive account anywhere that was written/verbalized within a week or two of the adventure?


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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05 Jan 2023, 10:12 am

Radish wrote:
So even when presented with overwhelming rational evidence and multiple verifiable facts that they are incorrect, they won't budge an inch, clinging to their unfounded beliefs instead. So a complete waste of my time and patience trying to debate them.


There are others who share that outlook,
https://www.fastcompany.com/90375425/ap ... conspiracy

July 13, 2019,

Quote:
But another thing is true about the Moon landings: You’ll never convince someone who wants to think they were faked that they weren’t. There is nothing in particular you could ever say, no particular moment or piece of evidence you could produce, that would cause someone like that to light up and say, “Oh! You’re right! We did go to the Moon.”

Anyone who wants to live in a world where we didn’t go to the Moon should be happy there. That’s a pinched and bizarre place, one that defies not just the laws of physics but also the laws of ordinary human relationships.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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05 Jan 2023, 10:16 am

MissMary227 wrote:
Is there any descriptive account anywhere that was written/verbalized within a week or two of the adventure?


Yes there is.

And you can apply your own effort to finding it, it's not like I have any special secret resources which haven't been available to the general public, the same books and period magazines have been publicly available for many decades.

But I will offer this connected thing,
https://www.wired.com/story/apollo-11-s ... ationship/

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As historian Kendrick Oliver has noted, there was certainly a pervasive sense of a Christian mission throughout the ranks of NASA employees working on Apollo, but there’s little evidence that NASA administrator James Webb and other agency leaders saw it as a religiously motivated mission. At the same time, however, the experience of the Apollo astronauts did expose them to “a progressive series of almost entirely original perspectives, including distant views of the whole earth, vistas that declared the infinite depths of the universe, and panoramas of the haunting landscape of the moon.” Thus, the question on many people’s minds when the astronauts returned was whether the experience had changed them. After all, they had experienced a view that throughout human history was reserved for the gods.

As Oliver recounts in To Touch the Face of God: The Sacred, the Profane, and the American Space Program, many of the Apollo astronauts had little time to reflect on the profundity of their experience while they were on the moon. Most were preoccupied with the details of the mission and simply staying alive in the uniquely hostile environment. Yet a handful of the astronauts did report feelings of divinity while on the moon. Mitchell, for one, reported a feeling of “universal connectedness,” and Apollo 15 astronaut James Irwin said he felt God all around him. Indeed, Irwin was so overcome by his experience on the lunar surface that he asked his colleague David Scott if they could hold a religious service atop some nearby hills before they departed from the moon. Scott ultimately shot down this request, so Irwin made do by quoting Psalm 121: “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.” This experience, Irwin later reported, was “the beginning of some sort of deep change taking place inside me” marked by a profound belief in the power of God.


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Last edited by kitesandtrainsandcats on 05 Jan 2023, 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

MissMary227
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05 Jan 2023, 10:21 am

I just need more evidence before I believe it hook-line-and-sinker, is all. I will move on my opinion about it if I can get that.

Why is the default acceptable platform only to believe it based on 'because they told us so?' And to ridicule folks who need a logical progression of events to buy-in to belief of a thing ?

No, I have survived and thrived in my life more because I listen to my instincts/intuition and require proof of outlandish claims before drinking their Koolaid. And landing on the moon is 'outlandish'. Same for me with most vaccines, hospitals, medications, popular culture, etc, etc, etc. I need to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. :ninja:


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