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Moog
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06 Dec 2010, 4:48 pm

zen_mistress wrote:
Thank you. I cant really see any way around suffering, but thank you for your kind thoughts.


I'm glad you took me kindly, sometimes I feel like I am coming over very coldly.

I wish I could easily transmit how pain and suffering are separate and how to have one without the other, but I am not yet that skillful. I am about to make an attempt.

Naturally, we tend to think of the two as inseparable, because our experiences are actually very complex. Meditation is partially a training in examining our very complex experiences and learning to discern the various parts, to see them clearly. For example, emotional pain and physical pain are different, but often the two mingle, like if someone suddenly physically attacked you; you might feel fear and confusion and the physical pain from the attack.

The pain of a loved one leaving this world is painful, there's no doubt about it. Buddhism does not promise deliverance from pain. Suffering is different. I think it's simple and not too misleading to think of pain as any unavoidable negative sensation, and suffering as any avoidable negative sensation.

Suffering can arise when we want that loved one back, when we cannot accept that passing; we resist and fight it, when we could let go; acknowledge the pain, and let it perform its necessary functions. Suffering can arise when we begin to cling to our own life, fearing for it's safety, wanting to be delivered from the threat of pain and our mortality. Suffering may arise if someone harmed our loved ones and caused their death; we can cling to our hatred of them, letting it eat us away. These are a few examples I can come up with. I am sure there are many other ways. Most of us are naturally very good at finding ways to suffer.

I hope you might read and understand and use this information to see how at least some suffering is avoidable.

I hope that everyone that has lost someone they love recently can bear it with the minimum of suffering.


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zen_mistress
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06 Dec 2010, 8:48 pm

that is very nice of you. I have come to the conclusion that I am the wrong kind of personality type for Buddhism. I think it is a philosophy best suited to people with matter-of fact, relaxed, accepting personalities, and I am neither of these things. I do admire seeing it in action though :) .


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Kaybee
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06 Dec 2010, 10:54 pm

zen_mistress wrote:
that is very nice of you. I have come to the conclusion that I am the wrong kind of personality type for Buddhism. I think it is a philosophy best suited to people with matter-of fact, relaxed, accepting personalities, and I am neither of these things. I do admire seeing it in action though :) .


To each his or her own, of course. To admire something from a distance can have its own rewards. I find it so difficult to reconcile your words with your username, though. :D


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zen_mistress
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06 Dec 2010, 11:51 pm

I came up with this username in 2005 when i was reading a lot about Buddhism and very interested in it. I am still very interested in it, but I have come to realise that some aspects of it, such as the whole "letting go" thing, go against my nature to the point that i cannot practise things like that. But I have benefited greatly from reading about it and I am far less uptight for knowing Buddhism. I still have a deck of Zen tarot cards which I use.


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nick007
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07 Dec 2010, 5:11 am

Some aspects of Buddhism are appealing to me like simple living. My family is lower middle class & I never had fancy expensive stuff because my parents believed in saving their money instead of running up lots of debt. I've been unemployed for a couple years due to my medical conditions & only income I have is disability. I'm a Secular Humanist & I believe people should be able to decide & think for themselves instead of having religion forced on em & being told what to do or how to live; I'm fairly accepting of others religions & try to be respectful of em because I'd want others to do the same to me. I also have a strong moral code/values & believe in fairness & honesty instead of trying to cheat & taking advantage of others. Lisa Simpson is a Buddhist & she's pretty smart.

I have really bad concentration problems(diagnosed with ADHD) & the whole meditation thing doesn't work for me. I like certain technology a lot(like net/computer, TV, my phone cuz I can put music on it & browse the net & stuff). The idea of Karma sounds appealing but it's an idealistic fantasy. I know good people who are very caring of others but they get taken advantage of & they are cr@p-magnets; I know mean people who are constantly getting rewarded from it; I do believe in playing by the rules & all but you can only do so much to help others & you have to watch your back with it. Buddhism seems too accepting of injustices; they are times when people need to stand up for themselves & speak their minds even thou it upsets others. I also like very offensive humor & Buddhism may have issues with it


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Moog
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07 Dec 2010, 9:46 am

nick007 wrote:
Some aspects of Buddhism are appealing to me like simple living. My family is lower middle class & I never had fancy expensive stuff because my parents believed in saving their money instead of running up lots of debt. I've been unemployed for a couple years due to my medical conditions & only income I have is disability. I'm a Secular Humanist & I believe people should be able to decide & think for themselves instead of having religion forced on em & being told what to do or how to live; I'm fairly accepting of others religions & try to be respectful of em because I'd want others to do the same to me. I also have a strong moral code/values & believe in fairness & honesty instead of trying to cheat & taking advantage of others.


That's great, sounds like you already do have a lot of Buddhism in you already :)
Quote:
Lisa Simpson is a Buddhist & she's pretty smart.


She's a great advert for Buddhism 8)

Quote:
I have really bad concentration problems(diagnosed with ADHD) & the whole meditation thing doesn't work for me. I like certain technology a lot(like net/computer, TV, my phone cuz I can put music on it & browse the net & stuff).


Meditation takes effort, especially if you have concentration problems like you and I do. But concentration meditation actually increases your ability to concentrate, if you stick with it. A lot of people think along the lines of, "I can't concentrate, so I can't meditate", when really it's more like "I can't concentrate, so meditation is a really, really good idea".

And you don't have to swear off using tech and gadgets, unless you're really hardcore and want to live in a cave. You don't have to.

Quote:
The idea of Karma sounds appealing but it's an idealistic fantasy. I know good people who are very caring of others but they get taken advantage of & they are cr@p-magnets; I know mean people who are constantly getting rewarded from it; I do believe in playing by the rules & all but you can only do so much to help others & you have to watch your back with it.


Here's how I see Karma in relation to your post. People who get walked all over are not being kind to themselves, and that's why they reap the karmic 'rewards' they do. They literally create their own karma.

People who are mean might have more things but they are usually suffering from excessive craving; greed. As much as someone else's greed affects our happiness, it also indicates a condition they are suffering from. That is; they aren't happy unless they have more and more stuff. If they were happy they wouldn't feel the need to be mean in order to gain material things. So they might seem like they are doing better than other, poorer folk, but again, they are creating their karma; making a life for themselves that is a treadmill of endlessly needing things to be happy. Also they create enmity, which can and often does bite them on the asses.

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Buddhism seems too accepting of injustices; they are times when people need to stand up for themselves & speak their minds even thou it upsets others.


Buddhists are not generally accepting of injustice that can be challenged and changed. Many Buddhists actively work to combat injustice. What we learn to accept is what we cannot change. I agree that people need to be strong sometimes, and actually, again, this is another misunderstood aspect of Buddhism; a Buddhist practice actually helps make you sharp and strong and courageous, able to speak without fear.

Quote:
I also like very offensive humor & Buddhism may have issues with it


If a joke causes suffering, then no, we wouldn't encourage that. But being a Buddhist is no barrier to having a sense of humour.


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Lace-Bane
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07 Dec 2010, 10:25 pm

Moog wrote:
Lace-Bane wrote:
Sorry I got rather lost in what the test was for. I took it and it said I was Deluded/ Speculative and gave advice about it, but I couldn't really figure out what Deluded/ Speculative was relevant to. What I mean is it told me what someone of that type should do to improve, but it didn't really explain what the type was. I looked at the previous pages and er... wasn't able to decipher it's meaning.

It told me this... The spiritual task of the deluded type is to transform spaciousness into a state of rooted equanimity. Deluded types need to learn how to reel in their minds. Practices useful for a deluded type include: noting (labeling); mindfulness of the hindrance of doubt; body awareness; somatic experiencing; qigong or yoga; precision; mindfulness of the earth element, and putting oneself in safe and pleasant surroundings to prevent dissociation.

... but not what the type meant :?

Sorry if I'm being stupid and have missed something :oops:


Ha, I find that passage pretty incomprehensible too, and I should at least have some inkling of what the heck it means.

So, I've had a good think about it and maybe this will help;

Deluded/speculative types may spend a lot of time in thoughts, indulging in fantasies, both negative and positive. Their mind is a natural wanderer, going far and wide. That's not necessarily bad, but sometimes it can be problematic.

Deluded/speculative types tend to be full of thoughts, many of them perhaps not reflecting reality too accurately. I would say questioning the truth quotient of your thinking would be very helpful, and testing those thoughts against reality.

I think a good way to 'reel in the mind' is with a concentration meditation practice. You train yourself to focus, or 'anchor', on a single thing, such as the sensation of the breath. This will inhibit the tendency of the mind to wander uncontrollably, and help ground yourself in the body.

The deluded/speculative type of person lives in the mind a lot and sometimes neglects the body, which is why the writer of the quiz recommends yoga and qi gong; a physical practice to bring a bit more balance and harmony between mind and body.


Thank you for the explanation Moog :)

The type is very much like me. I get lost in my thoughts while awake and asleep. I can barely get much done due to getting lost in fantasy. I even excessively get lost in sleep because I dream up to 3 times a night :oops:



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08 Dec 2010, 12:48 am

Deluded/ Speculative. It definitely fits me. I'm not sure about anything.



Moog
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08 Dec 2010, 5:31 am

Lace-Bane wrote:
Moog wrote:
Lace-Bane wrote:
Sorry I got rather lost in what the test was for. I took it and it said I was Deluded/ Speculative and gave advice about it, but I couldn't really figure out what Deluded/ Speculative was relevant to. What I mean is it told me what someone of that type should do to improve, but it didn't really explain what the type was. I looked at the previous pages and er... wasn't able to decipher it's meaning.

It told me this... The spiritual task of the deluded type is to transform spaciousness into a state of rooted equanimity. Deluded types need to learn how to reel in their minds. Practices useful for a deluded type include: noting (labeling); mindfulness of the hindrance of doubt; body awareness; somatic experiencing; qigong or yoga; precision; mindfulness of the earth element, and putting oneself in safe and pleasant surroundings to prevent dissociation.

... but not what the type meant :?

Sorry if I'm being stupid and have missed something :oops:


Ha, I find that passage pretty incomprehensible too, and I should at least have some inkling of what the heck it means.

So, I've had a good think about it and maybe this will help;

Deluded/speculative types may spend a lot of time in thoughts, indulging in fantasies, both negative and positive. Their mind is a natural wanderer, going far and wide. That's not necessarily bad, but sometimes it can be problematic.

Deluded/speculative types tend to be full of thoughts, many of them perhaps not reflecting reality too accurately. I would say questioning the truth quotient of your thinking would be very helpful, and testing those thoughts against reality.

I think a good way to 'reel in the mind' is with a concentration meditation practice. You train yourself to focus, or 'anchor', on a single thing, such as the sensation of the breath. This will inhibit the tendency of the mind to wander uncontrollably, and help ground yourself in the body.

The deluded/speculative type of person lives in the mind a lot and sometimes neglects the body, which is why the writer of the quiz recommends yoga and qi gong; a physical practice to bring a bit more balance and harmony between mind and body.


Thank you for the explanation Moog :)

The type is very much like me. I get lost in my thoughts while awake and asleep. I can barely get much done due to getting lost in fantasy. I even excessively get lost in sleep because I dream up to 3 times a night :oops:


You're very welcome :)


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RightGalaxy
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09 Dec 2010, 10:43 am

Greed/Faith



Tomasu
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09 Dec 2010, 3:11 pm

^^ Yaye greetings everyone. My happy scores are

Aversive: 4
Greed: 4
Deluded: 5


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Kaybee
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09 Dec 2010, 5:24 pm

Tomasu wrote:
^^ Yaye greetings everyone. My happy scores are

Aversive: 4
Greed: 4
Deluded: 5


Greetings, Tomasu! What a balanced individual you are. :)


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11 Dec 2010, 6:19 am

Kaybee wrote:
Tomasu wrote:
^^ Yaye greetings everyone. My happy scores are

Aversive: 4
Greed: 4
Deluded: 5


Greetings, Tomasu! What a balanced individual you are. :)


^^ Yaaye thankee Kaybee. Thank you very much for providing this lovely article and quiz also.


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11 Dec 2010, 11:23 pm

Aversive: 2
Greed: 4
Deluded: 7

So, mostly deluded. No surprises there.



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13 Dec 2015, 11:52 am

Aimless wrote:
Aversive: 2
Greed: 4
Deluded: 7

So, mostly deluded. No surprises there.



Aversive: 0
Greed: 1
Deluded: 9

Delusion is my safehold a dangerous world.

It is where I go to recharge. I am a sitting duck for predators and delusion is where I don't need to patrol my boundaries with the intensity of the republican dream for homeland security. I don't have the capacity to discern kindness from a con, so I need to suspect all IRL, but in my delusions all are kind. Jesus' admonishment to walk the tightrope of being wise as serpents and innocent as doves left me falling to brokenness.

Knowing I can return to the gentle idealism of my delusions allows me to successfully go to work 5 days a week for 25 years and carve out a life of my own creation. It may be unzen of me, but I am proud that I have accomplished this.
.


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