"if guns are outlawed only violent criminals will have guns.

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MissMary227
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08 Jan 2023, 9:54 am

Radish wrote:

Of course it is. The point I'm making is that your right to bear arms means your entire country is flooded with guns. It typically means if someone is going to break into your home they will be carrying a gun, so you need to have a gun too. Here in UK / Europe there are few guns which means anyone breaking into your home isn't likely to be armed with a gun in the first place.

And how would you protect yourself from the person breaking into your home to do you or your family harm?

Quote:

The American solution of guns for everyone will never cure the problems your country has with gun violence. I see no solution. As a country you have left it too late to get a grip on. So the school shootings will go on and on and on. One small thing you could do is stop selling military grade or automatic weapons to the public, but the NRA would block any such attempts in the name of freedom.

The problem of violence and harming others with violence will always we with us. If other countries would prefer to forego personal freedom and the right to bear arms in being able to protect themselves from violent offenders and rely on the government, then so be it.

But I live in the freest nation on Earth and I am thankful I can have the freedom to really defend myself and my family and not have to rely on the state for that. Especially considering how poorly the state runs itself currently. What makes America great is not our government officials, it's our system of government that allows its people the best expression of human rights and freedom. Each one of us being allowed to live to our utmost potential , that is what makes America so great. :salut:

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Radish
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08 Jan 2023, 10:24 am

MissMary227 wrote:

But I live in the freest nation on Earth and I am thankful I can have the freedom to really defend myself and my family and not have to rely on the state for that. Especially considering how poorly the state runs itself currently. What makes America great is not our government officials, it's our system of government that allows its people the best expression of human rights and freedom. Each one of us being allowed to live to our utmost potential , that is what makes America so great. :salut:

Then learn to live with the consequences. Learn to expect endless school shootings and people shot during muggings. Mentally ill people shooting their neighbours or anyone they dislike. Shopkeepers regularly getting shot. The country with the highest rate of gun deaths in the free world. Living in fear of every unexpected noise at night. What wonderful freedom you have.

Personally I'm happy to be free of intruders bearing guns. If you prefer to live in a war-zone, your choice, your freedom.

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nick007
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08 Jan 2023, 11:30 am

It seems to me like barely anything is being done by our goverment to address gun violence other than having moments of silence when there is a mas shooting. We should be the quietest country on the planet but instead we constantly bicker about everything. It's well past time for us to STFU & actually do something for a change. Some insist that increasing guns will prevent gun violence. Lets try that & if gun violence goes up or does not decrease, we scrap that idea & try the opposite approach. If the latter does not work either, then we try something else like trying to prevent other causes of violence like poor quality or unaccessable health care especially mental health care, poverty, the failed drug war, bullying & hatred.

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MissMary227
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08 Jan 2023, 12:50 pm

Radish wrote:

MissMary227 wrote:

You have yet to answer my question though about how you would defend yourself and your family if someone broke into your home.

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Radish
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08 Jan 2023, 12:57 pm

MissMary227 wrote:

You have yet to answer my question though about how you would defend yourself and your family if someone broke into your home.

Without recourse to lethal force preferably. Assuming he managed to get past my 100 pound Akita dog, which would likely rip his face and testicles off, he'd have me to face with a very large knife. I am also trained in self defence and quite a big chap.

As yet, nobody has tried to break into our home. If they did, I'd rather it be on my terms as described rather than both of us carrying a gun. Upping the ante with guns doesn't improve the outlook for me or my family.

Either nobody has guns (UK) or everybody has guns (USA). I prefer the former.

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MissMary227
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08 Jan 2023, 1:00 pm

Radish wrote:

MissMary227 wrote:

You have yet to answer my question though about how you would defend yourself and your family if someone broke into your home.

Well, I am not sure everyone is willing or able to have a guard dog who would attack an intruder. Besides that, I wouldn't want to go up against a crazy in a knife fight. They have psycho strength. Look at the recent murders in Idaho as an example. No, the only viable protection is a gun in that moment.

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Radish
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08 Jan 2023, 1:06 pm

MissMary227 wrote:

No, the only viable protection is a gun in that moment.

Then you get the American problem automatically. Everyone gets guns and lives in fear of their neighbours. A gun free society is a much safer place to live. Here only trained armed police and the military carry guns with only a few exceptions. Sure there are occasions when knife wielding maniacs kill someone, but we don't get the daily armed rampages like you do in the US.

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MissMary227
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08 Jan 2023, 1:16 pm

Quote:

Pew Research Center, 2022 https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

How has the rate of U.S. gun deaths changed over time?
While 2020 saw the highest total number of gun deaths in the U.S., this statistic does not take into account the nation’s growing population. On a per capita basis, there were 13.6 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 2020 – the highest rate since the mid-1990s, but still well below the peak of 16.3 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 1974.

A line graph showing that U.S. gun suicide and gun murder rates have increased in recent years, but remain below past highs. The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974. And there were 7.0 gun suicides per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.7 measured in 1977. (One caveat when considering the 1970s figures: In the CDC’s database, gun murders and gun suicides between 1968 and 1978 are classified as those caused by firearms and explosives. In subsequent years, they are classified as deaths involving firearms only.)

As I said, accounting for population growth, gun deaths are actually down. And most of them are suicides, not murders. In addition, very few people are killed by mass shootings even though that is what is sensationalized on media now.

Also, you still did not answer my question sufficiently. Do you think you can fight a psycho in a knife fight and win? Because it will take time for the cops to arrive....

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goldfish21
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08 Jan 2023, 1:23 pm

That's just a fairy tale that people who sell guns tell to sell as many guns as possible. All gun arguments in the USA are profit motivated.

Most of the handguns in the hands of violent criminals/drug gangs in Canada come from.. you guessed it: gun happy USA.

Oh, and this is now a thing in the USA.. gun violence is now the LEADING cause of death in adolescents. It's surpassed car accidents now. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmc2201761

Since there's more guns than people in the USA and it hasn't solved all your gun problems yet, the obvious solution is more guns!! Must not be at the safety point yet. Churn 'em out until there's at least one for every hand in America! And then if that hasn't solved all your gun problems, keep making more.. toe guns, elbow guns, teeth guns, ear guns, whatever it takes to make America safe from guns!!

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Radish
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08 Jan 2023, 1:25 pm

@MissMary227

If I died in such a situation, then so be it; however saying that, such a situation here is extremely unlikely. It is preferable to living in a society where everyone (good people and bad) owns guns and lives in fear. Overall, the UK is a far less violent place than the US and that's what is important to me.

Do you think it is a good thing that people in the US can buy military grade weapons and automatic weapons that are intended for the battlefield? Are you expecting the zombie apocalypse or having to defend your home against an army of intruders?

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Last edited by Radish on 08 Jan 2023, 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MissMary227
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08 Jan 2023, 1:26 pm

Just think of all those proud Americans being armed. I like the idea of an armed citizenry myself. :viking:

/my point has been made here

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Radish
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08 Jan 2023, 1:29 pm

MissMary227 wrote:

Just think of all those proud Americans being armed. I like the idea of an armed citizenry myself. :viking:

/my point has been made here

I prefer a peaceful non-violent life; not being part of a malignant militia.

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magz
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08 Jan 2023, 1:36 pm

Oh, the land of the free, where a policeman can shoot you for reaching at your pocket but at least it's illegal to have an overgrown garden :roll:

(I was studying a gardening handbook recently and read on how designers solved a problem of neighbours reporting one for "too many flowering plants" in his frontyard Yeah, certainly, the land of the free...)

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Radish
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08 Jan 2023, 1:41 pm

MissMary227 wrote:

I like the idea of an armed citizenry myself.

I understand you are arming 6 year old kids now, can never be too careful, the teacher might say something the kid doesn't like so needs to be shot.

/sarc

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goldfish21
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08 Jan 2023, 1:44 pm

magz wrote:

Oh, the land of the free, where a policeman can shoot you for reaching at your pocket but at least it's illegal to have an overgrown garden :roll:

(I was studying a gardening handbook recently and read on how designers solved a problem of neighbours reporting one for "too many flowering plants" in his frontyard

Yeah, certainly, the land of the free...)

At least when the free food plant inspector comes along to write you a ticket you can tell them to F off with a couple great big gun barrels in their face! :lol:

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lostonearth35
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08 Jan 2023, 1:47 pm

Because ammosexuals and reason mix like oil and water.

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