The man vs bear meme

Post Reply New Topic

And once again, talking about sexual violence against women has been derailed by turning it into a discussion about self defense.

The bigger issue is a much more important issue, and it's the issue that the meme is about. This is another validation of the importance of the message of the meme and how no one apparently wants to hear it.

Leaving aside the obvious flaws in the "self-defense" suggestion (not everyone is capable of fighting, not all situations are fair, self defense takes years to learn and doesn't always work, even being a ninja master can't save you from being drugged, or ambushed with a knife or gun)...

DATING SHOULDN'T REQUIRE MORTAL KOMBAT TRAINING JUST TO NOT GET ASSAULTED IN A SUPPOSEDLY CIVILIZED SOCIETY. Nor should "fend for yourself" be an acceptable option to a problem (assault) which itself is not considered acceptable in a supposedly civilized society.

I don't get why "treat women better, and do something about those who don't" is such a difficult solution to see.

It's easy to say "fight back!" when you're not the one that has to do the fighting...

Self-defense is either not an option or would be ineffective in, perhaps, the majority of scenarios as those of us who’ve experienced sexual violence, including myself, know all too well.

It might seem simple unless you’ve experienced it yourself. People are drugged or otherwise incapacitated, threatened with weapons, overpowered by someone who is much bigger and stronger, are trapped in an abusive relationship, or are so terrified they freeze. The possibilities are endless. Most of the time attackers don’t attack someone unless they think they have a strong chance of success which is why weapons are so popular. If the person knows you, they’ll know how to prey on your vulnerabilities too. It’s easy to drug someone who already trusts you.

People need to stop engaging in sexual violence and harassment. Society needs to stop blaming victims.

Yes... the irritation being expressed is a result of emotional baiting, and not an actual problem that people actually face, like being assaulted... that's totally what's going on...

The fact that people refer to "treating women better" as a "wish" rather than a goal or an ideal is also disheartening. As for how to accomplish it, oh, I dunno, how about not enabling men who engage in this behavior by making excuses for them or giving them free-passes, or not normalizing blaming women for being victims of unacceptable actions committed by others, or even standing up to men who try to engage in such behaviors. Wow, that was so hard to think up!

If the way some men mistreat women is wrong, then it's everyone's social responsibility to do something about it. Or are we playing the "it didn't happen to me, so it's not my problem" game. If bad men are still allowed to commit violence against women, even in the presence of "good" men, then why should women feel safe around ANY men, if it seems like even the ones that won't assault them, won't do sh!t to stop the ones that will assault them.

Honest question - how many of y'all would interject into a situation where a woman was being assaulted or mistreated? How many of you would just sit there and do nothing, cos you "didn't wanna get involved" or it was "none of your business"? How many of you have ever stood up for someone other than yourself? How many of you don't even stand up for yourselves?

The meme shouldn’t be divisive. Raising awareness or, at least, consciousness on this topic is extremely important, especially since, as has already been mentioned, self-defense is ineffective much of the time. Even if someone successfully fights off an attacker, it’s still a traumatic experience that can cause PTSD.

On the streets? At night? On foot? And alone?

Even if it's in a middle of the woods;
I'd choose human. They don't scare me, they disappoint me. And I did not specifically chose man.

Bears are another different territory.


I really think that most of these stuff had less to do with self defense, and more to do with socialization crap.


In fact, it's actually easier to deal with midnight walks in the streets and anticipate assault, theft, or whatever, than to indict an acquaintance of a crime in a middle of some party after the fact.

On the streets, everything is actually a fair play when it came with violence and public norms are different than, say, social circles.

It's also easier to indict violent strangers.
It's also easier to tell traumatic stories that happens at 'dangerous times and places'.

How about forests??
That's an even fairer play, not limited to humans with little to no public rules and etiquette whatsoever.


In social circles, one is a little too involved in one's personal life; this also meant safety. This also meant self defense is less relevant.
This also can entail blackmail and manipulation.

Confrontations can be swayed in favor of the perpetrator. What if the perpetrator is someone from higher hierarchy? Would people believe her?

Especially within the family -- especially if it's something to do with preserving relationships and therefore the dynamics in mind.



I, for one, am aware of my local stats. I likely know when or when not am being stupid.

The fact that I'm well acquainted with the local division related to violence against women is just a cherry on top.



As for the meme and spreading awareness myself?
Eh. Sure, I guess.

Bears do not infiltrate your human social circles and use said social relationships to get away with sexual assault and the like. They don't blackmail or threaten people in any community involved.

They don't use laws in their favor, they don't use social norms and preconceptions between genders, they don't even use empathy against anyone.

And their proximity is usually not near the streets at night where it's still noisy enough to be at.

In the forest?
Bears might be just as afraid as you. They'd rather be left alone either.
As for men? Who knows. It's an even more complicated gamble. Maybe they're just as afraid, maybe not.



And frankly -- I think there's should a better way to convey awareness of such topic.

Gained Number Post Count (1).
Lose Time (n).

Lose more time here - Updates at least once a week.

^ It IS victim-blamey. It’s shifting the focus from the perpetrator to the victim. It happens too much, and it needs to change.

It shouldn’t be hard to imagine how self-defense would be completely ineffective in many different scenarios.

Society needs to change.

I think slogans like "any man can be a rapist" or "any man can be a violent assaulter" are not only an insult to men but actually harmful to women. I read that 0,5% of the men in my country are convicted sex offenders. That makes it about four times more likeley that a man is autistic or twenty times more likely that he's openly gay than he's a sex offender. Of course you can speculate about the number of men escaping justice or innocent ones being convicted, but let's not go down that road. Instead of lumping together 99,5% of men with that small group of offenders I think it's better to focus on what sets the 0,5% apart from men in general and fund research in that field so that women can learn to spot the warning signs. A lot of violence, included sexual, against women is by a partner or someone the woman willingly had engaged with. And a lot of the men that attack and assault women they don't know are in a long term relationship with a woman. And I doubt any of these offenders are incels. This is a clear indication that women are rather clueless about these warning signs.