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SilverProteus
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30 Mar 2008, 11:04 am

Prof_Pretorius wrote:
If there are any out there, I think they'd catch on pretty quickly that we're quite destructive. So if they're peaceful, they'd go somewhere else. But if they're aggressive, they might take us as a challenge.


If they were technologically superior to us (and they would have to be to find us because we have certainly not found them) then it wouldn't matter how destructive we are. They would destroy us first.


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Prof_Pretorius
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30 Mar 2008, 11:27 am

SilverProteus wrote:
Prof_Pretorius wrote:
If there are any out there, I think they'd catch on pretty quickly that we're quite destructive. So if they're peaceful, they'd go somewhere else. But if they're aggressive, they might take us as a challenge.


If they were technologically superior to us (and they would have to be to find us because we have certainly not found them) then it wouldn't matter how destructive we are. They would destroy us first.


Perhaps not. I'm thinking of how deadly certain Amazon tribes can be to civilized explorers who stumble upon them.


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Kilroy
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30 Mar 2008, 11:32 am

if the borg come we're all dead :lol:



iamnotaparakeet
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30 Mar 2008, 11:44 am

Maybe the aliens would be like the ones on Event Horizon?
Or maybe the ones in That Hideous Strength?

Who would know? This is what science fiction lives off of: ignorance and speculation.


On earth for a given surface area, whether in a desert or an ocean, you shall most likely find something that is alive. Increase the surface area and you increase your chances of finding life on Earth. Can this be cogently induced to hold true for the cosmos?

Think of the factors involved with our planet:

93 million miles +/- 2% radius of orbit around a star of Sols' magnitude and composition.
Rotation of 24 hours +/- 10 minutes for even heating
23.7 degree axial tilt causing the change of seasons
Greenhouse effect to absorb solar energy
21% O2, 78% N2, 1% for all other gases which include O3 and CO2
Moon causing tides
Jupiter influencing the asteroid belt
Location away from the center of galaxy; non proximity to black holes and pulsars etcetera.

Even if a planet like ours existed, does life occur by chance?

For the simplest molecule of ribonuclease there are 124 amino acids of 17 different types arranged in a specific order. Limiting to a soup of just these 17, the odds of this molecule occurring by chance are 17^-124 or 1 out of 3.8e152.

There are proteins with more than 10,000 amino acids and more variety of them in specific order and folded precisely. What are the odds of that by random chance?

DNA and RNA take away the randomness of protein building, but how did they come about?

Paley's argument and philosophical naturalism

Finding a watch in the desert, without knowing what one is, you could come to one of two conclusions:

1. Since all of the elements in the watch are also found in the desert, you might conclude that watches naturally are formed in the desert by random collisions of sand, cactus, and tumbleweeds.

Or

2. Examining the inside of the watch you might be forced to make another conclusion; seeing the gears, spring, various mechanisms in a put together in such a way as to be statistically improbable to occur by chance, you might rightly conclude that someone designed and built the watch. From there you may even figure out its purpose of keeping time and how to operate it.

Looking at the Earth and life that exists here, with the conditions being right to support life and life itself being in so many ways advanced technology, practically nanotechnology, electronics, optics, computers, solar arrays, sensors, etc, the idea that it all came about and is currently existing without a designer, or "naturally" is ludicrous.

Why can't we make the conclusion of life and the universe having a designer? Not for lack of data, that's for sure, but because of an a priori assumption that everything occurs naturally. However, is that scientific to hold to an a priori model after it has been shown to be unsupported by the data? No, but that is what happens in the world of academia for philosophical reasons.

So, back to the question about aliens, or rather other sentient beings. Biblically God made other beings, angels. Most are good and some are malevolent, i.e. the fallen ones. Do they live on other planets? I don't think so, I think they are here. So to answer your question, I think "aliens" do exist, but they are the kind in C.S. Lewis's That Hideous Strength and the movie Event Horizon.



Prof_Pretorius
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30 Mar 2008, 11:47 am

Kilroy wrote:
if the borg come we're all dead :lol:


What if we gave them a tummyache when they tried to absorb us ???


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Prof_Pretorius
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30 Mar 2008, 11:49 am

Iamnotaparakeet, I'm not saying there are aliens.
I'm merely asking people to think beyond what Hollywood shows us.
I think there are only two movies that show aliens coming here, and not being intent on destruction.


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polarbear1010
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30 Mar 2008, 11:53 am

Aliens would have to travel many LY's from their destination to approach us in reality, I believe they are real but unapproachable but if we do encounter them I would probably feel freaked out, I would get my videophone out and film it for the media!



iamnotaparakeet
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30 Mar 2008, 11:54 am

Prof_Pretorius wrote:
Iamnotaparakeet, I'm not saying there are aliens.
I'm merely asking people to think beyond what Hollywood shows us.
I think there are only two movies that show aliens coming here, and not being intent on destruction.


Okay. You still would need to assume their existence for such roleplay though, unless it is to be completely esoteric.



Prof_Pretorius
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30 Mar 2008, 12:06 pm

"Completely esoteric" is prolly the best compliment I've gotten in quite some time ...

Thank you, lad ...


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SilverProteus
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30 Mar 2008, 12:15 pm

Prof_Pretorius wrote:
SilverProteus wrote:
Prof_Pretorius wrote:
If there are any out there, I think they'd catch on pretty quickly that we're quite destructive. So if they're peaceful, they'd go somewhere else. But if they're aggressive, they might take us as a challenge.


If they were technologically superior to us (and they would have to be to find us because we have certainly not found them) then it wouldn't matter how destructive we are. They would destroy us first.


Perhaps not. I'm thinking of how deadly certain Amazon tribes can be to civilized explorers who stumble upon them.


They're not deadly if you can take them out with a bomb first...

Quote:
I'm merely asking people to think beyond what Hollywood shows us.
I think there are only two movies that show aliens coming here, and not being intent on destruction.


People are way too parnoid...


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iamnotaparakeet
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30 Mar 2008, 12:22 pm

SilverProteus wrote:
They're not deadly if you can take them out with a bomb first..


However, even the probability of kill for saturation bombing isn't 100% as evidenced in Vietnam.



MissConstrue
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30 Mar 2008, 12:32 pm

Then we would probably in that case have Mar Attacks war. :ninja:


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SilverProteus
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30 Mar 2008, 12:35 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
SilverProteus wrote:
They're not deadly if you can take them out with a bomb first..


However, even the probability of kill for saturation bombing isn't 100% as evidenced in Vietnam.


You've got a point. What if they were having a bad day and decided to destroy our planet then?


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DeaconBlues
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30 Mar 2008, 12:40 pm

Another take on the Drake Equation.

"Lungfish", by David Brin.

But are they really aliens?


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Kilroy
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30 Mar 2008, 12:47 pm

if aliens came they would be a lot more advanced and either wanna kill us (and we would die) or want to meet us (and we'd try and kill them and they'd then kill us)



jawbrodt
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30 Mar 2008, 1:15 pm

I don't think they would just stop in to say 'hi'. They would probably be interested in our minerals, water, etc... Think about it. I don't think we wouldn't put so much effort into reaching the moon or Mars, if there weren't some potential benefits. If aliens do visit us, they might not want to kill us, but they would want something. Let us hope it is something plentiful. :wink:


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