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cyberdad
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15 Nov 2020, 2:11 am

Good to hear :D



Pepe
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15 Nov 2020, 2:57 am

adromedanblackhole wrote:
Pepe wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
Pepe wrote:

Well, thankfully I was able to retire when I turned 50.
Work was crushing me.
At the time, I though I was unusual.
But after 7.5 years here on WP, it seems it is pretty typical, for an autie, to be burnt out after 28 years of solid work. 8)

It is like a machine that beats the spirit out of you ... on a broader scale that is precisely what industrialism at large is doing to the planet.

Humanity just has no soul.


I used to say, if I had to do my life over again, I'd kill myself fist. :mrgreen:

Well, as I keep on saying, the hooman psyche is an abomination.
I suggest we take it up with our not so omnipotent maker. 8)

How are you feeling, today?
How is your back going?

I'm feeling generally fine today - not emotionally turbulent or terribly upset with the world. Most likely because I had nothing work related today.

My back is also generally fine.
Today has been a day.


{{{{{{{{{{{{{{adromedanblackhole}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Those hugs should keep you happy, for a while. ;)



adromedanblackhole
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15 Nov 2020, 11:16 am

I'm not entirely sure what prompted me to spend a few hours yesterday looking into Jim Jones and Jonestown but I realized oh okay so my outlook on humanity and the world needs to shift because there are too many similarities between what he was going on about and my general critiques on living.

Fortunately I don't care about people to want to "save them from the evils of a capitalist world" a la a remote forced labor camp and mass forced "suicide." I'm also politically libertarian. But I ramble on about the inhumanity of the industrialized world in a similar vein to how he'd ramble on about capitalism so... reason to say hey okay need a new world concept asap



cyberdad
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15 Nov 2020, 7:50 pm

adromedanblackhole wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what prompted me to spend a few hours yesterday looking into Jim Jones and Jonestown but I realized oh okay so my outlook on humanity and the world needs to shift because there are too many similarities between what he was going on about and my general critiques on living.


There are still quite a number of cults around today which attracts gullible people.

The cult leaders are experts in the use of hypnosis



Pepe
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15 Nov 2020, 8:09 pm

adromedanblackhole wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what prompted me to spend a few hours yesterday looking into Jim Jones and Jonestown but I realized oh okay so my outlook on humanity and the world needs to shift because there are too many similarities between what he was going on about and my general critiques on living.


Are you going to share the kool-aid? :scratch:

adromedanblackhole wrote:
Fortunately I don't care about people to want to "save them from the evils of a capitalist world" a la a remote forced labor camp and mass forced "suicide." I'm also politically libertarian. But I ramble on about the inhumanity of the industrialized world in a similar vein to how he'd ramble on about capitalism so... reason to say hey okay need a new world concept asap


I tend to just not give a crap, about human affairs, these days.
A pointless endeavour.
But emotionalism is always funny to watch. :mrgreen:



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15 Nov 2020, 8:11 pm

cyberdad wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what prompted me to spend a few hours yesterday looking into Jim Jones and Jonestown but I realized oh okay so my outlook on humanity and the world needs to shift because there are too many similarities between what he was going on about and my general critiques on living.


There are still quite a number of cults around today which attracts gullible people.

The cult leaders are experts in the use of hypnosis


Image

Was that the reaction you were hoping for? :mrgreen:



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15 Nov 2020, 8:24 pm

Pepe wrote:
Are you going to share the kool-aid? :scratch:

I tend to just not give a crap, about human affairs, these days.
A pointless endeavour.
But emotionalism is always funny to watch. :mrgreen:

Keep in mind of the over 900 who died at Jonestown 2/3 were children or elderly pensioners whose retirements were confiscated from them by the cult and the vast majority of total deaths were not people willingly drinking kool-aid but were either forced or injected against their will. It was also largely recorded and they died to the sound of Jim Jones' voice broadcasted over speakers congratulating them for their revolutionary act. I don't think I'll be using that expression again.

If he really had such a problem with this world he should have done it a favor and just taken his own life and not drag 900 people with him. Maybe a few dozen of his inner circle went willingly.



adromedanblackhole
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15 Nov 2020, 8:39 pm

cyberdad wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what prompted me to spend a few hours yesterday looking into Jim Jones and Jonestown but I realized oh okay so my outlook on humanity and the world needs to shift because there are too many similarities between what he was going on about and my general critiques on living.


There are still quite a number of cults around today which attracts gullible people.

The cult leaders are experts in the use of hypnosis

Cult leaders are typically charismatic people who feed on the weaknesses of their followers, have an insatiable lust for power and control, and typically believe in some godlike quality about themselves that demands to be worshipped. They offer some kind of unique doctrine that claims to be the key to a more fulfilled life. The organizations they form tend to isolate their members from their families and have strict rules for excommunication. They maintain the idea of the dangers of "suppressive people," those who question the doctrine out of curiosity or out of disbelief - "suppressive people" are dangerous people they need to be expelled and anyone caught maintaining ties with these people are also thrown out and shunned. Typically for a cult to be considered a cult, it should meet all of these criteria.

There are those in the self-help space, namely Tony Robbins, who has some elements of the above - his followers tend to look at him and speak about him as if godlike, he claims that following his "doctrine" will be the key to a more fulfilled life - but ultimately is not a full blown oh this can be dangerous cult. It just has a bit of a culty feel.

I believe in self-hypnosis and feeding your unconscious mind nurturing, life affirming thoughts.



cyberdad
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15 Nov 2020, 9:03 pm

adromedanblackhole wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what prompted me to spend a few hours yesterday looking into Jim Jones and Jonestown but I realized oh okay so my outlook on humanity and the world needs to shift because there are too many similarities between what he was going on about and my general critiques on living.


There are still quite a number of cults around today which attracts gullible people.

The cult leaders are experts in the use of hypnosis

Cult leaders are typically charismatic people who feed on the weaknesses of their followers, have an insatiable lust for power and control, and typically believe in some godlike quality about themselves that demands to be worshipped. They offer some kind of unique doctrine that claims to be the key to a more fulfilled life. The organizations they form tend to isolate their members from their families and have strict rules for excommunication. They maintain the idea of the dangers of "suppressive people," those who question the doctrine out of curiosity or out of disbelief - "suppressive people" are dangerous people they need to be expelled and anyone caught maintaining ties with these people are also thrown out and shunned. Typically for a cult to be considered a cult, it should meet all of these criteria.

There are those in the self-help space, namely Tony Robbins, who has some elements of the above - his followers tend to look at him and speak about him as if godlike, he claims that following his "doctrine" will be the key to a more fulfilled life - but ultimately is not a full blown oh this can be dangerous cult. It just has a bit of a culty feel.

I believe in self-hypnosis and feeding your unconscious mind nurturing, life affirming thoughts.


Wow! I am in awe of your knowledge. I rarely come across people who are so widely read but you are certainly in a bracket on your own.

I am interested that you mention Tony Robbins. He actually does use hypnosis on his followers - puts them in a trance and then does 1hr of selling.



cyberdad
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15 Nov 2020, 9:04 pm

Pepe wrote:
[
Was that the reaction you were hoping for? :mrgreen:


I'll let you know when I eventually break my gaze



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15 Nov 2020, 9:21 pm

cyberdad wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what prompted me to spend a few hours yesterday looking into Jim Jones and Jonestown but I realized oh okay so my outlook on humanity and the world needs to shift because there are too many similarities between what he was going on about and my general critiques on living.


There are still quite a number of cults around today which attracts gullible people.

The cult leaders are experts in the use of hypnosis

Cult leaders are typically charismatic people who feed on the weaknesses of their followers, have an insatiable lust for power and control, and typically believe in some godlike quality about themselves that demands to be worshipped. They offer some kind of unique doctrine that claims to be the key to a more fulfilled life. The organizations they form tend to isolate their members from their families and have strict rules for excommunication. They maintain the idea of the dangers of "suppressive people," those who question the doctrine out of curiosity or out of disbelief - "suppressive people" are dangerous people they need to be expelled and anyone caught maintaining ties with these people are also thrown out and shunned. Typically for a cult to be considered a cult, it should meet all of these criteria.

There are those in the self-help space, namely Tony Robbins, who has some elements of the above - his followers tend to look at him and speak about him as if godlike, he claims that following his "doctrine" will be the key to a more fulfilled life - but ultimately is not a full blown oh this can be dangerous cult. It just has a bit of a culty feel.

I believe in self-hypnosis and feeding your unconscious mind nurturing, life affirming thoughts.


Wow! I am in awe of your knowledge. I rarely come across people who are so widely read but you are certainly in a bracket on your own.

I am interested that you mention Tony Robbins. He actually does use hypnosis on his followers - puts them in a trance and then does 1hr of selling.

I don't believe there is necessarily anything objectively wrong with hypnosis - there are many levels to the unconscious mind and developing techniques to engage or make conscious those levels isn't inherently a bad thing.

It all depends on motive of the hypnotist. For much of the self-help space, putting beliefs in action is what helps people achieve results in their lives. So if Tony is helping a person to believe that his products will help that person - then ultimately both he and the other person win. He wins because he's made a new client, the client wins because he has learned a new technique of his mind to achieve new results in his life.

People are rightly wary of hypnosis because they imagine a power hungry evil person taking possession of their mind and controlling them for their own selfish gain. Possible. All hypnosis really is is unlocking hidden parts of the mind and speaking to them. It doesn't necessarily make it good or evil, it just depends on motive and what you're feeding the mind.

Until Tony purchases a 100+ acres of land to move all of his followers to and force them to work and not allow anyone to leave, I won't consider him a cult personality. There are cultish aspects of his followers most definitely.



cyberdad
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15 Nov 2020, 9:56 pm

adromedanblackhole wrote:

It all depends on motive of the hypnotist. For much of the self-help space, putting beliefs in action is what helps people achieve results in their lives. So if Tony is helping a person to believe that his products will help that person - then ultimately both he and the other person win. He wins because he's made a new client, the client wins because he has learned a new technique of his mind to achieve new results in his life.

People are rightly wary of hypnosis because they imagine a power hungry evil person taking possession of their mind and controlling them for their own selfish gain. Possible. All hypnosis really is is unlocking hidden parts of the mind and speaking to them. It doesn't necessarily make it good or evil, it just depends on motive and what you're feeding the mind.

Until Tony purchases a 100+ acres of land to move all of his followers to and force them to work and not allow anyone to leave, I won't consider him a cult personality. There are cultish aspects of his followers most definitely.


No you are right and I wasn't saying TR is a cult leader. He does have some elements of narcissism but I guess when you are a charismatic life coach that goes with the territory.

He does, however, use hypnotic trance techniques to get his followers into a state of mind where they will listen/be persuaded to sign up to his next workshop.

But you are correct, he is practicing positive psychology so participants are willing to participate to gain benefit from his service (once again "trade")



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15 Nov 2020, 10:24 pm

cyberdad wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:

It all depends on motive of the hypnotist. For much of the self-help space, putting beliefs in action is what helps people achieve results in their lives. So if Tony is helping a person to believe that his products will help that person - then ultimately both he and the other person win. He wins because he's made a new client, the client wins because he has learned a new technique of his mind to achieve new results in his life.

People are rightly wary of hypnosis because they imagine a power hungry evil person taking possession of their mind and controlling them for their own selfish gain. Possible. All hypnosis really is is unlocking hidden parts of the mind and speaking to them. It doesn't necessarily make it good or evil, it just depends on motive and what you're feeding the mind.

Until Tony purchases a 100+ acres of land to move all of his followers to and force them to work and not allow anyone to leave, I won't consider him a cult personality. There are cultish aspects of his followers most definitely.


No you are right and I wasn't saying TR is a cult leader. He does have some elements of narcissism but I guess when you are a charismatic life coach that goes with the territory.

He does, however, use hypnotic trance techniques to get his followers into a state of mind where they will listen/be persuaded to sign up to his next workshop.

But you are correct, he is practicing positive psychology so participants are willing to participate to gain benefit from his service (once again "trade")

Yeah any huge name in the self-help space is narcissism actualized: a person would have to believe they're so important and what they offer the world is so impactful to get them to a level where they're selling out auditoriums with people who want to partake of their message. Not just a grandiose self-concept, it's a grandiose reality.

I went through a few months of his coaching program - obviously not working with him directly just working with one of his coaches. Reasonably satisfied with the content but every level of contact I had with people in his organization just gave me the "hmm is this a cult?" feel.



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16 Nov 2020, 1:23 am

adromedanblackhole wrote:
Cult leaders are typically charismatic people who feed on the weaknesses of their followers, have an insatiable lust for power and control, and typically believe in some godlike quality about themselves that demands to be worshipped. They offer some kind of unique doctrine that claims to be the key to a more fulfilled life. The organizations they form tend to isolate their members from their families and have strict rules for excommunication. They maintain the idea of the dangers of "suppressive people," those who question the doctrine out of curiosity or out of disbelief - "suppressive people" are dangerous people they need to be expelled and anyone caught maintaining ties with these people are also thrown out and shunned. Typically for a cult to be considered a cult, it should meet all of these criteria.

There are those in the self-help space, namely Tony Robbins, who has some elements of the above - his followers tend to look at him and speak about him as if godlike, he claims that following his "doctrine" will be the key to a more fulfilled life - but ultimately is not a full blown oh this can be dangerous cult. It just has a bit of a culty feel.


Thankfully, we have the Church of Scientology.



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16 Nov 2020, 2:28 am

Pepe wrote:
adromedanblackhole wrote:
Cult leaders are typically charismatic people who feed on the weaknesses of their followers, have an insatiable lust for power and control, and typically believe in some godlike quality about themselves that demands to be worshipped. They offer some kind of unique doctrine that claims to be the key to a more fulfilled life. The organizations they form tend to isolate their members from their families and have strict rules for excommunication. They maintain the idea of the dangers of "suppressive people," those who question the doctrine out of curiosity or out of disbelief - "suppressive people" are dangerous people they need to be expelled and anyone caught maintaining ties with these people are also thrown out and shunned. Typically for a cult to be considered a cult, it should meet all of these criteria.

There are those in the self-help space, namely Tony Robbins, who has some elements of the above - his followers tend to look at him and speak about him as if godlike, he claims that following his "doctrine" will be the key to a more fulfilled life - but ultimately is not a full blown oh this can be dangerous cult. It just has a bit of a culty feel.


Thankfully, we have the Church of Scientology.


Australians don't realise how much influence the church of scientology had in this country up to the 1965. Eventually the government clamped down on them but they were aiming to take over by planting politicians sympathetic to their cause. It never happened but they still own lots of assets in Australia.



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16 Nov 2020, 2:30 am

adromedanblackhole wrote:
I went through a few months of his coaching program - obviously not working with him directly just working with one of his coaches. Reasonably satisfied with the content but every level of contact I had with people in his organization just gave me the "hmm is this a cult?" feel.


My wife attended his zoom coaching which he delivered to several thousand people via livestream. He gives off cult vibes, particularly the firewalking stuff. He also does a lot of hard sell.

His minions are not as impressive as him.