When did "fashion" become a necessity?

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axiom
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18 Jan 2012, 4:21 am

I believe fitting in is necessary if you want to achieve the greatest possible amount of success. People like to bring up the example of Einstein, but what if Einstein was just slightly less intelligent? What if his theories were just a dead end? I think, in that case, he would have been screwed. If Einstein had spent more time working on fitting in, it's possible his scientific theories would have been much more readily accepted (if you study the history of the physics community around that time, you will notice that it took years before people even took Special Relativity seriously). And if his theories ended up being wrong, he would have probably still been able to find employment in the field of science doing other stuff that he enjoyed. By going against the social norms (of the physics community) he left himself with less options and arguably made it more likely for him to fail at achieving his goals.

All that said, I still am very stubborn and I strongly oppose fitting in. I have no f*****g idea what I should actually do though. Sometimes appeasing your basic emotions and desires is better than taking the so called 'proper' route. Fitting in may make you successful from society's perspective, but maybe on some level you will never truly be happy because your inner identity will remain suppressed. Although, sometimes I think society's opinions dominate us, and as much as we try to say that we have different ideals, the social pressure of everyone else overpowers us and our values end up becoming the same as the rest of society's.

All this BS makes me so f*****g angry though. I can't handle all this cognitive dissonance.



Sweetleaf
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18 Jan 2012, 5:32 am

HazelEye wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
How is my appearance a big deal?


Appearance is how you look to people, which can determine if you get a job, make new friends, etc. I guess you don't have to be extremely fashionable, but if you show up to something important in a granny dress no one will take you seriously.


It is pretty stupid that getting a job or making friends would depend on looks....seriously it makes no sense. Why is it that big of a deal?


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Sweetleaf
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18 Jan 2012, 5:37 am

axiom wrote:
I believe fitting in is necessary if you want to achieve the greatest possible amount of success. People like to bring up the example of Einstein, but what if Einstein was just slightly less intelligent? What if his theories were just a dead end? I think, in that case, he would have been screwed. If Einstein had spent more time working on fitting in, it's possible his scientific theories would have been much more readily accepted (if you study the history of the physics community around that time, you will notice that it took years before people even took Special Relativity seriously). And if his theories ended up being wrong, he would have probably still been able to find employment in the field of science doing other stuff that he enjoyed. By going against the social norms (of the physics community) he left himself with less options and arguably made it more likely for him to fail at achieving his goals.

All that said, I still am very stubborn and I strongly oppose fitting in. I have no f***ing idea what I should actually do though. Sometimes appeasing your basic emotions and desires is better than taking the so called 'proper' route. Fitting in may make you successful from society's perspective, but maybe on some level you will never truly be happy because your inner identity will remain suppressed. Although, sometimes I think society's opinions dominate us, and as much as we try to say that we have different ideals, the social pressure of everyone else overpowers us and our values end up becoming the same as the rest of society's.

All this BS makes me so f***ing angry though. I can't handle all this cognitive dissonance.


Well first of define success, I don't see giving up ones self to fit in as success but to each their own. Also if Einstein had spent more time working on fitting in he may never have came up with any of his theories because he would have been too busy with trivial things required to fit in. Life isn't all about trying to please others or at least should not be.


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iceveela
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18 Jan 2012, 9:35 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well first of define success, I don't see giving up ones self to fit in as success but to each their own. Also if Einstein had spent more time working on fitting in he may never have came up with any of his theories because he would have been too busy with trivial things required to fit in. Life isn't all about trying to please others or at least should not be.


The way I see it there are many different kinds of "living". There is doing what you want to do, and there is social. Most of the population is in the social circle, so they really don't know how to cope with our kind of living, which is not social oriented. Therefore, they believe that we are not living, if we are not social. Which is a complete delusion of majority superiority.

if this makes any sense...


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axiom
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18 Jan 2012, 7:11 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
axiom wrote:
I believe fitting in is necessary if you want to achieve the greatest possible amount of success. People like to bring up the example of Einstein, but what if Einstein was just slightly less intelligent? What if his theories were just a dead end? I think, in that case, he would have been screwed. If Einstein had spent more time working on fitting in, it's possible his scientific theories would have been much more readily accepted (if you study the history of the physics community around that time, you will notice that it took years before people even took Special Relativity seriously). And if his theories ended up being wrong, he would have probably still been able to find employment in the field of science doing other stuff that he enjoyed. By going against the social norms (of the physics community) he left himself with less options and arguably made it more likely for him to fail at achieving his goals.

All that said, I still am very stubborn and I strongly oppose fitting in. I have no f***ing idea what I should actually do though. Sometimes appeasing your basic emotions and desires is better than taking the so called 'proper' route. Fitting in may make you successful from society's perspective, but maybe on some level you will never truly be happy because your inner identity will remain suppressed. Although, sometimes I think society's opinions dominate us, and as much as we try to say that we have different ideals, the social pressure of everyone else overpowers us and our values end up becoming the same as the rest of society's.

All this BS makes me so f***ing angry though. I can't handle all this cognitive dissonance.


Well first of define success, I don't see giving up ones self to fit in as success but to each their own. Also if Einstein had spent more time working on fitting in he may never have came up with any of his theories because he would have been too busy with trivial things required to fit in. Life isn't all about trying to please others or at least should not be.


I was referring to the conventional definition of success (society's definition). Of course, there is no reason to believe that that is desirable, but when everyone refers to success in that manner it starts to influence your way of thinking, because most of us (except for the Buddhists) allow words and symbols to become reality. I question whether it is possible to truly be happy if you are always fighting against the influence of external stimuli.

As for Einstein, what you say is possible, but also keep in mind that if he was more social he would have had friends who could have helped him develop his theories by giving intellectual or emotional support. Science is a collaborative effort and lone wolves do have it more difficult (especially when they need a laboratory).



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18 Jan 2012, 11:23 pm

During the Holocaust, when it became important that people be "normal" and fit in.


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