What's the Deal with People and Japan?

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Hey, this is random. I don't intend any disrespect to people of the Japanese persuasion. I'm just trying to wrap my head around a particular disparity I've noticed. And observe as that disclaimer does nothing to prevent me being banned.

Okay, why does every nerd I've ever met pretty much worship Japanese culture? I don't get it. Anime, manga, samurai... I know a lot of people who claim to follow Bushido (Usually while sitting around playing video games, not practicing kendo). There seems to be this idea that Japan is some welcoming fairyland full of beautiful women who will love you for being "Otaku" (Despite Otaku being pretty looked down on over there), where honor and justice thrive (Tell that to China, Taiwan, the Filipinos, the Ryukyu Islanders... and so on), where your every day salaryman lives by his code of Bushido...

I've never been to Japan. I have known some Japanese who came here, and I have known some people who have lived in Japan, one of whom, an uncle, lived there for twenty years. So I am in a position of relative ignorance, and I take their word for it. My uncle's take: "The Japanese are vaguely racist little man-children. They say they live in a culture of respect, but what they mean is that you respect the man above you, and he shows zero respect to you. And don't get me started on the porn." I actually toned that down a bit, cut out a few biting analyses, and excised a few epithets... What he says isn't classy, but it pretty much jives with everything I've heard from people who have been there. From everything I've heard, it's especially difficult for Westerners to integrate into Japanese society, and to many, the Japanese are difficult people to work with. Just ask General MacArthur. I don't mean to insult the Japanese, of course, but Nippon is not a wonderland, unless you're into some very strange porn. Then it's g*****n Candyland.

So what's the deal? Why does everyone worship Japan so damn much?

I am not of Japanese heritage, but I've found a lot of things from Japan inherently attractive. When I was a child I used to rake sand into swirl patterns and found out that it was like Zen gardening. Most of the cartoons I enjoyed as a child turned out to be made in Japan or picked up by Japan after America discontinued them. I've always enjoyed robots and technology, as well as gadgets which they are big on. I picked up Origami in 5th grade, and it turned out to be Japanese (actually no one is 100% certain of its origins, but it was made popular by Japan). After awhile I made the correlation that many things I enjoy came from or were popularized by Japan, probably due to aesthetics. So, I like many things from Japan and now consciously research things about Japan, but I do not agree with some of their philosophies or like everything about it.

I don't take a huge interest in Japan itself, it just so happens that I like things that happen to be made/created by people from Japan.

^ My interest in Japan started with anime/manga, and then it snowballed.

Now I'm into all things Japan.

A lot of the entertainment there has a distinct flare not found anywhere else.

If you're looking for a prime example, any anime done by my personal favorite studio, SHAFT.

I was interested in Japanese culture and traditions long before the current anime craze. Japan is a very interesting and complex place. There is a lot of things that can be learned from Japan. All of which are too complicated for me to go into here. People's current fascination with Japan is a total turn off to me. The average people interested in Japanese culture today are 13 year old girls interested in cosplay, and adult male perverts trying to pick up Japanese girls.



Thats pretty much all total BS. Japan is just a nation of people with Asperger's. 99% of the population anyway. They are very smart, they are interesting and fun to be around. If you get to know them and share some interests with them, you can probably talk to them for a while. But otherwise they don't have a lot of time for you. Just like Asperger's type people everywhere. They are no different.

I'm not one of those crazy Japanophiles who worships the country like it's some sort of perfect Utopia (I know that there's a lot out there especially in the anime/video game community), but it's one of my favorite countries that I want to visit one day. I like it not for the anime or manga or video games, but for the beautiful culture and the people who I think are amazing. The thing that I admire most about Japan is how they were able to rebuild themselves after being bombed during World War II. Something like that would have probably destroyed any other country, but they were able to pick up the pieces and work hard to make their country better than ever. I think their people are very strong and beautiful because of that. I don't really care if they're racist because I'm cynical enough to believe that everybody is racist in some way and we just have to learn to deal with it.

Perhaps these “nerds” as you call them simply respect the Asian work ethic, or the fact that Asian culture places more respect upon one’s level of education rather than their popularity. Perhaps they realize that upon graduation they will be competing not with their American classmates, but with graduates from Tokyo, Bombay and Shanghai. Are you aware that what the TOP 20 percent of American students typically learn in math in the 8th grade is learned by MOST students in Japan in the 7th grade, this according to the edu gov website.

Conversely, do you know what it is like being Asian in America? Here are two snippets from news articles.

“Asian students need a near-perfect SAT score of 1550 to have the same chance of being admitted at a top school as whites and blacks with scores of 1410 and 1100…”

“The American Civil Rights Institute has written about University of California’s effort to “tinker” with admissions. A UC administrator was quoted as saying; “…unless the university took steps to ‘guide’ admissions decisions, UC would be dominated by Asians… (they) are ‘too dull – they study, study, study.’

I’m generally not a wordy person, but your posting compelled a reply.

One more point, foreigners who build their lives in Japan tend to do very well.

As an aside, what does “Just ask General MacArthur” mean? Quite obviously he is unavailable for comment.

Japanese 'girls' have enough of that on the trains, amirite?

I bet J-fellas get pissed off at being left out.

I appreciate that. I in no way meant to disparage the Asian work ethic. They're good workers, and excellent students, it's well known. What I referred to with the word "nerd", was quite a few people, who I've known online and in person, who idealize Japan, who obsess over anime and manga, and who somehow believe that anime and manga is an accurate portrayal of Japanese culture, similar to how some people might assume that Friends and Sex in the City are accurate portrayals of everyday American life. They're the people who are often unsuccessful with women, yet assume that they'll go to Japan and acquire a "waifu" with little change to their habits or personality. Those are the nerds I was referring to.



Do you have examples? I know several who have tried, and each one of them has said that they felt extremely uncomfortable, and that they were always considered to be "other" by the Japanese. This goes for other ethnic groups, as well, including other Asian races, such as the Koreans. The Japanese are always impeccably polite, of course, yet there is a clear in-group/out-group thing working. If you've got examples of people who have successfully integrated, please let me know. I'm sure there are some.



It was a tongue in cheek reference. He was quoted as saying something, after the war, along the lines of "The secret to dealing with the Japanese is to treat them as if they are all twelve years old."

I've lived in Japan for a short while and yes, I am one of those who like their culture and have read and studied much about them and their history.

For me they are a fascinating culture because they are unique in almost every imaginable way. Their history, culture, way of thinking and doing things is completely unlike any other culture, including their asian neighbors.

I also visited Korea and found Koreans to be relatively easy to understand since much of their cultural norms and traditions mirror many found in the west. This is not that they adopted them from the west, its just that the west just like Korea have similar practices. Not so with Japan.

If you really want to understand the Japanese mentality I strongly suggest you read James Clavell's 'Shogun' . Even the Japanese admit the book portrays them almost perfectly.

From personal experience I confirm the comment of your relative: Yes, they are *quite* xenophobic and racist. Its built into their culture and even their written language. Now, there is a big difference between xenophobia/racism in Japan and in other places. Its the most irritatingly polite xenophobia/racism you will ever see. They don't practice extroverted displays of anger or displeasure at you being something other than Japanese. They do however very politely refuse to admit you exist as you stand right in front of them.

The porn thing is highly misunderstood by the west. Yes, it is present at every level of society but their society is a lot more open about sexuality and nakedness. That being said, they are also some of the most sexually repressed people in the planet. Their culture is almost victorian when it comes to who you can date, when you can date and what you can in a date. Over there your location in the social ladder determines everything. A rich japanese boy would never date a poor japanese girl. It would be a scandal that would shame their families (yes, both!).

You will never be integrated into Japanese society or way of life. You are forbidden access to it just because you are not Japanese. Even the Koreans and other asian people that look identical to Japanese people are denied it. Its a society-wide cultural practice to VERY POLITELY ostracize anything that is not Japanese.

Remember I said its built into their language? Yep. Katakan is their mirror-copy of the 'pure Japanese' writing script. Literally, you write things that are 'purely japanese' in hiragana and when something 'foreign'/'not japanese' needs to be written it is written in Katakana. If you, a foreigner, write your name in Hiragana script it will not be accepted. Not when writing checks or filling in a form, not when turning in an assignment, not even if you write it down so a Japanese person can try to pronounce your name (they will simply look at you with deer-in-headlight look because.. 'O~ mai godru thisu no japanese!' ).

The respect comment is dead-on right. The social ladder thing again. Someone that is a rung below the other person is expected to show a LOT of respect upwards and the person above him is expected to behave rather dismissive (but never rude!) to the person below. To them, 'face' is everything.

To give you an example... this is a little trick that an expat living in Japan told me one day while riding on a train and I was amazed to see how well it worked.

He said: If you're ever lost in the train stations don't ask someone who is alone for help. They will do their best to ignore you and go away. Instead, find someone who is in a group of 3 or 4 people. If you can, spot the one that is better dressed and ask him/her for help.

..and he was right. The reason is that the lone Japanese will avoid interacting with foreigners (note: the young generation doesn't do this very much) whereas the Japanese in a group is in a social bind: if he refuses to help you then he, as the highest social ladder person (better clothing.. and oh yes believe me you CAN see who is better clothed) would lose a LOT of face if he does not help someone when asked for help. If you ask the worse dressed one then he can refuse you and the others in the group will play along with it.

The three times I had to use that little trick I was led by the hand to my subway exit even if it was 2 floors or more away. When I asked the lone Japanese commuter it was always an ostracizing experience.

Finally, Japan is a place where girls chase guys (and its AWESOME) and the food is simply to die for. So good, tasty, well presented and healthy.

If I won the lottery I'd live in Japan.

I've read accounts of Westerners that have lived there decades and have learnt the language and the customs nearly off-by-heart, and they're still seen as foreigners.

This is true. I'm Okinawan. So the mainland Japanese probably don't consider me as true Japanese. I don't think I'd be comfortable living in mainland Japan. There are too many rules to follow. Okinawans are more forgiving and laid back.

They're xenophobic because they don't want foreigners to ruin their culture. Can you blame them tough? That's what you admire about them anyway, their unique culture.
It's funny how Japanese people are so keen on western culture when they are young but as they get older they become quite nationalistic.

I don't understand Otaku culture at all either. I know little about manga, anime, cosplay and never been to Akihabara.

That been said, I don't understand why the op give a damn about people being fascinated by Japan. I'm more curious why he cares.

Shogun was an amazing novel. I read it years ago.

Like you, I find their culture fascinating, but for me, it is important, gravely so, not to idealize them. My grandfather fought in the Pacific theater. He saw first hand the horrors that the Japanese perpetrated on the people of the South Pacific and Mainland Asia. He passed those stories on to my father, who passed them on to me. Perhaps I am being unfair, as a great deal of time has passed, but while I can admire and study their culture, and even visit, I don't think I could ever see it in the same light the Japanophiles do. It is a unique and admirable culture in many ways, but absolutely horrifying in others. This is why it's so difficult for me to understand those who love it so much.

Your whole post was excellent, man. I don't have the energy to point-by-point it, but thank you. My point for this whole thread was to shed some light on the intricacies and complicated aspects or Japanese culture, along with a little shedding of light on our own as a result. I have no problem with Japan or Japan-lovers, but it's not the Garden of Eden, the Land of Milk and Honey that many seem to believe it to be. I will say that I may, for the reasons mention in the above paragraphs, be a bit hard on them, however.



As I said above, it's something I don't quite understand, and I was talking to someone today who fit the profile of the "Fanatical Otaku American" to a T. I want to understand where they're coming from.

Japan is a very interesting country, I would like to learn about their history.

But if I had to live there I would avoid the overpopulated cities, I would choose a small town in the country.