Gender vs Sex - Good for patriarchy bad for women?

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I wasn't sure where to post this since the topic encompasses LBGTQ, Women's issues, anthropological/societal shifts and current events.

Disclaimer: I'm making this post as an offshoot of a similar topic posted by someone else with a similar title. As I stated in that thread, my interest in this issue is from an anthropological perspective and how human societies can change in its views and perceptions of many different things. I am not passing judgement on anyone, nor will I disparage any person, group, biological sex or gender identity. My hope is that within this thread, there can be legitimate civil philosophical discussion on an epic shift in Western societies in regard to biological sex and gender identities.

Bottom line question I pose for discussion: Do you believe that adopting gender identity as an amorphous and expanding concept (ie "X" number of genders today or "XX" number of genders in the future) helps biological females, hurts biological females or won't change anything for biological females?

In the other thread, I brought up the fact that in certain sports such as track and field, biological males identifying as female have joined female teams and have broken previously held female records in the sport.

An article caught my eye yesterday which was about a self identified liberal feminist and biological female Kara Dansky who among other things is or was a lawyer with the ACLU and also for WoLF (Women's Liberation Front) who argues that the transgender movement is damaging to feminism and to biological females.

FEMINIST CURRENT 2016 PODCAST WITH KARA DANSKY

I thought the podcast was interesting. It's 22 mins long so it's a short listen. Some of the quotes of Kara Dansky I took from the podcast:

"Changes in Title IX Obliterating sex as a meaningful category worthy of legal protection...... Women don't exist anymore under the new changes to Title IX as a distinct legal category worthy of legal protection."

"We need [ sex ] segregated spaces."

Ideally I would like biological females to give her opinions in this thread as to how they feel about the separation of biological sex and gender identity and how it impacts them now or how they see it impacting them in the future or in future generations; however, certainly I'm curious about everyone's opinion on the subject.

In the title of this thread, I mention the patriarchy. Other articles I've read in the last 24 hours which include the perspectives of feminists as well as lesbian feminists argue that the elimination of biological sex as a legal protection for women is not only damaging to women and girls, it's something that can be abused by the patriarchy against biological women (e.g. biological male retaining full male physiology identifying as gender female and using traditionally female "safe spaces" such as locker rooms and bathrooms).

Another thing mentioned in the Podcast that I found to be interesting. Kara Dansky mentioned that in her opinion, the media has erred in portraying anyone raising issue with separating gender from sex and how it detrimentally impacts legal protections fought long and hard for by women (e.g. Title IX protections) as a "conservative" issue. Meaning, the media has portrayed anyone who raises issues as being "conservative". False as an absolute. WoLF, a liberal feminist organization has sued both the U.S. Dept of Justice and the U.S. Dept of Education over this issue.

Last edited by Magna on 29 Jan 2019, 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

In My Opinion, no matter how sex and gender are defined, there will be people who will exploit the definitions to fit their own personal agendas.

As you pointed out, some people are decrying Title IX for removing special protections for women, while others are applauding Title IX because it mandates equal opportunities and funding for men and women. Title IX does not erase the distinctions between men and women, nor does it negate the concept of gender fluidity.

"No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

As I have stated in other threads, sex as a reproductive form and function is determined by genetics, while gender is more likely determined by other factors (too numerous to mention). Thus, sex and gender are not the same thing.

Again, this is my opinion.

I'm guessing the social impact of being more inclusive of gender differences will be minimal, since those people will always be a minority. It's not a fad.

The social impact will mostly affect those whose world-view is fixated on binary definitions of gender and sex -- a world view in which "men are MEN and women are WOMEN" and gender roles are strictly defined and never violated.

TERFs like Kara Dansky are an offshoot of radical feminism. They hold radical views that are not held by most feminists because they exclude trans people, hence the name Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists. They are mostly mocked and derided among the feminists I know, I don't know anyone who agrees with their ideas. There is a reason they are the only kind of feminists embraced by evangelicals and the alt-right.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/02/08/r ... otections/

Another source for how gay advocacy and other feminists feel about TERFs like Kara Dansky and their connection to the evangelical right-wing:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/04/fak ... anization/

Thank you for your perspective, Kara. My hope was that biological women would respond with their opinion since some of the concerns Dansky gave in the podcast dealt with things like a biological male with full biological genitalia having full access to a women's locker room and women's communal shower if the person identifies as gender female.

Given I'm biological male, I wouldn't encounter that specific situation so I was looking for comments from biological women that may encounter that specific situation in their lifetime.

I think it's a complicated issue. I am a biological woman but there are a lot of ways that I don't conform to traditional gender stereotypes. I think that less rigidity around the concept of gender is helpful to all people in the sense that it will make society less likely to condemn us when we don't conform.

I think that on a sociopolitical level, people should feel free to do whatever they want as far as which gender roles they do or don't choose to fulfill, how they dress, whether they want to surgically change their bodies, etc. On the other hand, I personally would not feel comfortable being in a situation like a communal shower if a biological man was there, even if that person was trans. But then I'm not really comfortable seeing other women naked in that kind of a situation either. Long-term, it seems like an ideal outcome would be to make individual stalls available for everybody, whether they are trans or not. I think that most people would prefer having that kind of privacy anyway.

I lived on a dorm floor that voted for a shower/bathroom for anyone in the center of the floor. It had separate stalls/enclosed toilets. There was also a male only shower/bathroom and a female only shower/bathroom.
We were LGBTQ friendly before that became fashionable.

Last edited by BTDT on 29 Jan 2019, 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I believe in individual stalls. Who wants to watch somebody "do their business," anyway?

I don't use locker rooms or communal showers (does anyone shower in a group outside of porn videos? I don't think that's a realistic scenario) so it doesn't really apply to me, but I don't have any problem with a person who identifies as female using the same bathroom as me, whatever their genitals are. I have been to a gym with locker rooms but the showers were individual little stalls so nobody is seeing anyone else's genitals anyway. And in the locker room you're not looking at other people's bodies, you're going about your business so I don't see how it would be a problem if a person with a penis was using the same locker room as me because we're there to get changed and go into the gym or go home afterwards so it just doesn't matter. No one is ogling anyone else, and if they were (no matter what gender they were) they would be asked to leave for being inappropriate and making people uncomfortable because it's common courtesy to not stare at people's bodies in the locker room.

It's just not the issue that some people make it out to be, no one cares if you use a locker room and you have a penis unless you're ogling or like taking pictures of people, which no one does. We're all just there to change clothes, no need to get worked up over other people's bodies.