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Tollorin
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26 Apr 2016, 9:26 pm

MidoriNoKaori wrote:
Freedoomed wrote:
MidoriNoKaori wrote:
Freedoomed wrote:
MidoriNoKaori wrote:
Qu'est-ce que c'est? - What is it?

Qu'es ce-qui ce passe? - What is happening?

Qu'est-ce qu'il se passe is the correct way to say it.


I am sorry for my mistake. Too much cees in those phrases.:-) (That was actually the point/idea of posting these two "classics".)

I also didn't know my message was posted, I had some difficulties in getting the message posted.


No worries. Even native speakers do this common mistake. It's like using "sa" in place of "ça".

Examples:
- Sa va bien.
- Combien sa coûte?

I may be a "grammar nazi", but can assure you that it's painful to see, over and over.
:cry:


Then I must be obsessed with grammar also, because I want to write correc text.

But someone else might have a more practical approach of writing/speaking a language...

Beside french been my first language (And only learning of english to properly communicate as a second language in adulthood), I have great difficulties with the grammar. It just never stick with me; I think it may be partly because it's presented in such a "stérile" way.
I can't get my head around how the one who made the term "Complément d'objet direct" could be someone who love french language; it can work in administration or engineering but putting such a ugly term to define the working of a language don't make sense to me.



Claradoon
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26 Apr 2016, 9:43 pm

I'm bilingual from Montreal. My own theory about learning to speak French is as follows:

there is only one tense, the present.
words indicating time can be added to the verb, e.g. I go to the store tomorrow. I go to the store yesterday.

there is no concordance for your first year of learning.

there is no tu/vous distinction; use vous for everybody.

that tricky vowel sound (e.g. feu) is made like this: make your mouth into an O and say E.

The thing is, you've got to get off the ground. People try to be perfect before they start.

Um, if you're going to be reading only, on the receiving end only as it were, then yes, the rules come first.

I'm not authorized to teach, I just live in a place where people learn French all the time.



Claradoon
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26 Apr 2016, 9:45 pm

Also, my favourite quote:

"To learn something you must make 10,000 mistakes; you may begin."



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27 Apr 2016, 1:04 am

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The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Apr 2016, 4:00 am

Something I said in another thread:

I think French is an inefficient language, I recall I bought once two Harry Potter for two little cousins - same book, one in French and one in English, and the French one was larger.

Also:
Les misérables in English is 560,391 words.
Les misérables in French is 655,478 words. ---> A proof of French inefficiency compared to English.

English is richer and more efficient while French stretches the same sentence.

Arabic is way more efficient than French as well.

For example:

In English: "I miss you". - three words, direct and simple!

In classic Arabic (dialects even make sentences shorter) : أنا اشتقت اليك - literally means "I miss you"; three words, direct and simple!

In French..... "Tu me manques" - Literally means "YOU are lacking to me" which kinda means 'your presence is lacking for me' - seriously french civilization?? Despite all your greatness yet you couldn't invent a more direct expression? lol Couldn't you simply invent the verb "To miss" so you can say "Je te <non-existent-verb>? :lol:


Things even get more complicated in indirect person.

In English: "My mom misses me" - three words, direct and simple!

In classic Arabic: "أمي مشتاقة الي" - three words, same literal meaning of English, direct and simple!

In French: "Je manque à ma maman" - literally means " *I* am lacking to mom" or "I am missed by mom" - LOL

Another example:

In English: "I trust you" - SIMPLE!

In classic Arabic: أنا اثق بك - same literal meaning of English and same word count- direct and simple!

In French however...: "J'ai confiance en toi" - literally means "I have confidence in you" or "je te fais confiance" (I give you my trust) - or "je compte sur toi (I count on you).


Not only the french language adds word count to the sentence but it also tends to be indirect in its meaning - like catching the left ear with the right hand from upper head.

Let me don't start on the use of y and en.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 27 Apr 2016, 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Drawyer
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27 Apr 2016, 4:09 am

^
Yeah..........Damn it. :|

Should I give up? :mrgreen:


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Drawyer
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27 Apr 2016, 4:33 am

je me
nous nous

tu te
vous vous

il le lui
ils les leur

elle la lui
elles se


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Drawyer
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27 Apr 2016, 4:38 am

Tollorin wrote:
I can't get my head around how the one who made the term "Complément d'objet direct" could be someone who love french language; it can work in administration or engineering but putting such a ugly term to define the working of a language don't make sense to me.
What's "Complément d'objet direct"? something like complement of direct object?


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Claradoon
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27 Apr 2016, 5:25 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
<snip>For example:

In English: "I miss you". - three words, direct and simple! <snip>

In French..... "Tu me manques" - Literally means "YOU are lacking to me" "You miss me" which kinda means 'your presence is lacking for me' - seriously french French civilization?? Despite all your greatness yet you couldn't invent a more direct expression? lol Couldn't you simply invent the verb "To miss" manquer so you can say "Je te <non-existent-verb>? Je te manques. :lol:

<snip>

In English: "My mom misses me" - three words, direct and simple!
<snip>
In French: "Je manque à ma maman" - Maman me manque. literally means " *I* am lacking to mom" or "I am missed by mom" - LOL


I'm a lot nicer about these things after my first coffee. I'm a grammar nazi at 6am.



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27 Apr 2016, 5:51 am

Claradoon wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
<snip>For example:

In English: "I miss you". - three words, direct and simple! <snip>

In French..... "Tu me manques" - Literally means "YOU are lacking to me" "You miss me" which kinda means 'your presence is lacking for me' - seriously french French civilization?? Despite all your greatness yet you couldn't invent a more direct expression? lol Couldn't you simply invent the verb "To miss" manquer so you can say "Je te <non-existent-verb>? Je te manques. :lol:

<snip>

In English: "My mom misses me" - three words, direct and simple!
<snip>
In French: "Je manque à ma maman" - Maman me manque. literally means " *I* am lacking to mom" or "I am missed by mom" - LOL


I'm a lot nicer about these things after my first coffee. I'm a grammar nazi at 6am.


How very rude of me! (Having coffee now)
And after telling everybody that 10,000 mistakes are the good way to go.
My apologies!



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Apr 2016, 6:00 am

YOU REALLY NEED COFFEE :lol:

We dont say Je te manque for I miss you, this is a common beginner mistake, on dit TU me manques

I miss you = Tu me manques

In reverse,
Tu me manques doesnt mean you miss me, It means I miss you.

Also She misses me = je lui manque, not elle me manque , also we can say Je manque à elle hence je manque à ma mère in my example....
In your wrong correction, Maman me manque means I miss my mom.

at least this how it is in my Lycéen French, I dunno if Canadian french follows different rules.



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Apr 2016, 6:07 am

Honestly I was like What the ...?

Apologies accepted, but if you wanna be a grammar nazi next time at least do it after coffee. :mrgreen:



Tollorin
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27 Apr 2016, 12:46 pm

Drawyer wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
I can't get my head around how the one who made the term "Complément d'objet direct" could be someone who love french language; it can work in administration or engineering but putting such a ugly term to define the working of a language don't make sense to me.
What's "Complément d'objet direct"? something like complement of direct object?

Don't really remember; school was a long time ago. It's a grammar thing. Here the french Wikipédia page about it: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compl%C3%A9ment_d'objet_direct
Keep in mind this only one element in the sentences structure; typical french sentences have many of those elements with complex interactions with each other, determining such things as which not-pronounced-verbally letter(s) to use to end a word.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Something I said in another thread:

I think French is an inefficient language, I recall I bought once two Harry Potter for two little cousins - same book, one in French and one in English, and the French one was larger.

Also:
Les misérables in English is 560,391 words.
Les misérables in French is 655,478 words. ---> A proof of French inefficiency compared to English.

English is richer and more efficient while French stretches the same sentence.

Arabic is way more efficient than French as well.

For example:

In English: "I miss you". - three words, direct and simple!

In classic Arabic (dialects even make sentences shorter) : أنا اشتقت اليك - literally means "I miss you"; three words, direct and simple!

In French..... "Tu me manques" - Literally means "YOU are lacking to me" which kinda means 'your presence is lacking for me' - seriously french civilization?? Despite all your greatness yet you couldn't invent a more direct expression? lol Couldn't you simply invent the verb "To miss" so you can say "Je te <non-existent-verb>? :lol:

"Tu me manques" is the same number of words as "I miss you", they even correspond to each other.
Tu/you
me/I
manques/miss



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Apr 2016, 3:29 pm

^^ Yes, but it's confusing for beginners because it's not a straightforward as English.

"I miss you" is direct, like "I love you".

In french "I love you" is straightforward "Je t'aime" but there's no such direct thing for "I miss you" in french.

The exact English equivalent of "Tu me manques" is "you are lacking for me" / "you are being missed by me".



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28 Apr 2016, 7:11 am

^ Aw...French

Claradoon wrote:
How very rude of me! (Having coffee now)
And after telling everybody that 10,000 mistakes are the good way to go.
My apologies!
lol no need to apology, you're just being cafeineless... :mrgreen:
Let's have some sweet coffee, sweet like you Claradoon!!

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Drawyer
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28 Apr 2016, 7:26 am

me, te, se before reflexive verbs

je me
nous nous

tu te
vous vous

il se
ils se

elle se
elles se


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