Bill introduced to propose unborn as victims of crime

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and I sure as hell wouldn't carry a rapist's offspring in my body for 9 months, regardless of who was going to raise it.


If a man hits his pregnant girlfriend in the abdomen, causing her to abort, he can be charged with assault and battery with significant injury to the girlfriend. If a driver negligently hits a pregnant woman and causes her to abort, they can be charged with negligence and injury to the pregnant woman.
Don't make out as though people can currently assault pregnant women without consequence; the only reason to drag the fetus into the picture is, as the OP mentions, as a back door to treating a non-sentient, non-independent organism as though it were a born human being.

LeahG: you had an abortion after being so paranoid about using contraception? Did he put it on his penis?

Congrats btw for being a ho.

Of course he did. And it worked. Every time. No splits, no breakages, no spillages, nothing.

But still I got pregnant.

Nothing works every time except abstinence, simple as that. You can't assume people aren't being safe - things happen.

Also, given that I'm in a steady relationship with the only person I've ever slept with, and we're currently talking engagement, I wouldn't say I'm a ho.

Thanks.

Can I call you an ignoramous now?

Last edited by LeahG on 08 May 2008, 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Don't be a jerk about things you don't understand.

My parents had their fourth child after using proper contraception, and a morning after pill. And my mom was 43 at the time.

There's a reason they state on the package that it's not a 100% guarantee.

My mother is on the pill and she still managed to get pregnant at 40 with my little brother, 14 years after her last kid... It happens sometimes. Don't judge what you don't know.

Leah - to fundies, any woman who has sex is a ho. They're delusional; don't let it get to you.

Ridiculous, and I am not a fundie. A ho is a sexually irresponsible female. Our mothers are certainly not hoes for conceiving us. I'm sorry about that comment, Leah. It was a rotten thing to say. uncalled for. I can get pretty passionate when it comes to the lives of unborn babies trivialized or made to seem unimportant. That's one of my "fundie buttons." BTW I'm Catholic. How does any of this make me delusional?

so men can't be hos, by definition. How... convenient. For you.

Apology accepted. Look, the way I see it we're all entitled to our own opinions, and that's fine if you don't agree with abortion. But surely you can see there needs to be that choice? If you don't agree with it then don't do it, that's fine, I don't think anyone would disagree with that being your decision. But for others who don't believe the same things as you that right to abort needs to be there - for me to have had a child now would have meant me not helping thousands and thousands of people like I can do now, and screwing up another human being's life by bringing it into a chaotic world without any family support, any money, anything to give it a decent head start. Waiting a few years is the best thing for all involved - I can now study, get my degree, help all those people, and have money and a home to raise a child in. To me, this was a very considered, very difficult, but very ethical decision I made with my partner.

My main point was, you can say 'use contraception' all you like, but the fact is if you're going to have sex you have to be prepared with the knowledge that you can get pregnant and that nothing works 100% of the time except abstaining. I can't explain how it happened - we're incredibly careful and as I said, this is with my partner of three years and the only person I've ever slept with, I'm not exactly a slag - but it did. And when it does, you just have to deal with it the best you can at the time.

Fair enough.

Although condoms are made of stronger stuff than cheesecloth. It shouldn't be a game of Russian Roulette with the condom and the pill. Condoms can rupture, sure, but for the Pill to fail as well? In conjunction with the condom? That would be like winning a state lottery and getting struck by lightning all on the same day.

Of course you don't need me to tell you that, Leah. And obviously it wasn't your fault. You did everything right. But if someone could lend their mathematical prowess to the probability of both condom and birth-control pill failing simultanously ...

I'm not on the pill, it made me incredibly ill and suicidal on top. In fact, the way my cycles are still recovering from the 'assault' on them the pill caused is, I'm sure, half the reason I ended up in that clinic yesterday. There's no way I'll ever touch anything hormonal again.

On a side note, a friend of mine fell pregnant on the pill and condoms a couple of years ago and now has a beautiful little boy. She's in a different situation though, in that she's older, married, and qualified.

Guess there's always that one in a million.

Meanwhile married couples can try for years and fail to conceive a child. Not even close, and they do everything humanly possible to make a baby.

It's not fair, is it?

But there's nothing I can do about them - I have to consider my own situation; they are not my partner and I. I'm actually considering getting into natural fertility after this experience, helping others who can't conceive for whatever reason. Life is a blessing, and I really feel sad for those who can't experience even what I have in the seven weeks I was pregnant for. If I can help others and put this whole ordeal to good use then that's at least one positive thing to have come from it.

That only means that the couple that are trying are the people who want the baby, the couple who got a abortion did not want one, you can't really expect someone who doesn't want a child to carry one and raise it just because someone else wish they could. I am aware that there are adoption options, but carrying a child requires a life-style changes which depending on the pregnancy can effect schooling or even health. I am not going out to buy a boat because someone else wish they could.

Leah, what you did was right an you have my support. You made a decision about your own body, you did what you could to prevent it, and you proved what I have been saying in the abortion thread... that abortion isn't always a easy choice to make, but you wanted to go to school first... to get a education and a job that will ensure the life you want to have for a child when you prepared to have one.

Leah, if by 'natural fertility' you mean the rhythm method or one of its ideological offspring, I strongly suggest you look up the failure rates (on a site not belonging to a branch of the Catholic church) before you depend on them.

Last edited by LKL on 09 May 2008, 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.