R Women with HFA or AS judged more harshly than men w/HFA/AS

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I think so. I've had a hard time, in my life making friends because I do and say socially stupid things , plus I have different interests than my peers. For example, I get nagged for not wearing makeup everyday, even when I was working(I'm going to school now). Ijust don't like to do it. Women, are expected to be communicative, especially by other women in a way, that I just don't do.

Plus, with HFA or AS, it's not obvious that we are not on the spectrum, thus making it harder to make friends.

What are your thoughts?

I don't think that either gender is judged more or less harshly overall. Men are judged more harshly for having certain AS traits and lacking certain NT traits; and the same goes for women. It's just that those "certain traits" differ across gender lines.

I think that AS women are judged more harshly than men on the spectrum. A man with AS might be seen as reserved, a more acceptable male trait, whereas women with AS displaying the same behaviour are seen as aloof and cold. For example, my ex is on the spectrum, possibly even more than I am, and people accept his eccentricities. Mine on the other hand are considered "unfeminine", and I'm always being accused of thinking I'm cleverer or superior to others.

Lots of the literature says that girls are often misdiagnosed or not diagnosed for precisely the opposite reason -- i.e., that girls are "supposed" to be shy and quiet and that boys are "supposed" to be confident and outgoing.

From what I've read here, men think that men are judged more harshly, and women think that women are judged more harshly. Hence, my initial comments above.

What a pantload.

Women are much more easily allowed to pass under the radar socially. They are not pushed as hard to be socially aggressive, nor bullied as viciously when they aren't.

hurrrrrr my gender has it the worst and I completely ignore that all people are treated differently upon individual circumstances where gender plays little/no role.

I think judgement is about equal in different ways. I don't think its b/c of AS/HFA women being autistic being judged they are just judged differently than AS/HFA men due to gender stereotyping crap.

In some ways yes, in others, no.

Not going to comment on who has it harder,  as I've never lived as woman in the world.  I get the impression that being a guy is harder than it looks from the outside,  though.

As far as expectations for guys:  being too quiet can be taken as aloof and result in,  "oh.  so you think you're better than everybody else, huh?  Maybe I should kick your ass college boy."  And overly formal speech doesn't help with that at all.

Not being able to spontaneously or naturally produce cat-calls ("I'd tap that ass!" etc) can acutally be a problem.  Also not bragging about sexual exploits (either due to not having any,  or feeling like that is a private matter), along with a lack of general "chest beating" behavior,  not to mention other things like lack of interest in sports can lead to to the ubiquitous "fag" label with all the attendant unpleasantness.

You're also allowed 2 emotions:  anger and horniness.  Although, as far as anger,  if you're 6' tall and 180 lbs and male,  and meltdown in a scary way (luckily for me I almost never do)  you're going to be seen as a much more dangerous a threat (like the "angry black man" thing) and  more deserving of police tasering/beating/shooting than a 120lb woman melting down.

Also,  cluelessness about clothing can be a problem for guys.  When I was a teen I liked loose baggy pants (for tactile reasons) rather than jeans,  which was seen by some as being "preppy." (it was the '80's)  And that fed into the whole "so you think you're better" thing.  I of course was oblivious to the social implications of pants at the time.  Especially, if you're in a working class place,  it's important to understand that stuff.

I've also sometimes heard women complain that guys "get to do <whatever>.". I think it's easy to forget that for guys a lot of those things are  not extra options,  but expectations that we're supposed to be living up to in all situations,  all the time.  From the other side it can look like a nice option that women don't have to do some of those things all the time (when maybe it's not really an option for women to do otherwise).

Also as a guy,  if you have no friends, no one is going to help defend you (" protect your honor"). If a guy hits a woman or child in public, I think people are more likely to get involved.  A guy hits another guy and it's "not my problem" for most people (I think, anyway).

I saw a TV program where a blind person was sent into a shop,  and would be deliberately short-changed by the clerk.  It was all a set-up,  to see what other people in the shop would do.  When the woman was short-changed people spoke up.  When the man was, no one said anything or intervened.

A lot of the above applies more to younger guys,  though I suppose things change for women with age as well.  Personally,  I'm kind of enjoying the automatic authority/respectability thing that comes with being a middle aged guy.  "Yeah,  suckers,  respect me 'cus I'm 40.  I promise I won't complain.  Mua ha ha.". That is a cool guy advantage I will admit. :twisted:

Ha.

This. Women judge much more harshly than men, in my experience. I have very few female friends, but lots of male friends. It's been that way most of my life; I simply get along better with guys. It's not just that I have many stereotypically masculine interests (console games, football, action movies). It's that they don't judge me as harshly as the women I meet. They're generally better at keeping their mouths shut, too; I hate gossip.

Women are expected to be nurturing and empathetic; I think it is easier for a man to get away with being neither of these things. (Although as Apple_in_my_Eye so eloquently pointed out, men have their own set of problems.) For me, it's akin to my decision not to have children. I often get negative reactions from women who find out I'm childfree; they say things like, "Why do you hate children?" or "You'll feel different when you're older," or, "It will be different when you have your own, you'll see." My husband doesn't get this kind of negative reaction; it seems almost expected that he wouldn't want kids! Since as a woman I'm supposed to have some sort of biological maternal urge, people think it's wierd that I don't. It's the same thing with not being empathetic -- it's just seen as weird, and yes, unfeminine. (I am actually a very nurturing person, but I can't empathize unless I've been in the situation myself.)

I think we are about the same in terms of having problems.

The two genders just tend to have different sets of problems.

Examples...on one hand, for a male, misreading a social cue is more likely to get you physically attacked.

On the other, there are much higher demands on girls and women to be socially smart. A guy can get away with not understanding feelings and interpersonal dynamics beyond a certain level. Girls and women are expected to be really sensitive to how you might be feeling, and why, and what caused it, and what all the factors are that might be making you feel that way, et-motherfucking-cetera. If you're not you're seen as either stupid or just wantonly cold and antisocial.

you don't think women are pushed to be social? i disagree. i think if you have problems socializing or making people at ease that's the #1 female failure.

but i don't want to see yet another thread disintegrate into bitter arguing over who has it worse. i just think the expectations based on gender socialization are very difficult on everyone. if you don't fit the mold, it is going to be difficult regardless of gender or even DX.

Word.

Women are expected to be people specialists. Boys and men have a lot of room to be less socially smart.

I think I would be judged more harshly if I was a man for not having a job and not being able to support myself. But I agree with others that it's probably unproductive and unfair to make generalizations.

In school, I simply played with the guys. There were only few girls with my special interest anyway.
Within the guy group it is much easier. They expect you to behave weird anyway (because you are a girl).

Now, I have a job that is related to my special interest, so that makes it really easy.

Some years back, I deliberately tried to meet women to socialize with, because I had noticed that I had not spoken to a single female in over a month. I met some really interesting people that way, but meeting them once a week is way enough for me. When one of them moved in with us to become our nanny, she completely freaked at the quiet time and the other symptoms. I think, she did not really understand, when we tried to explain to her. Now we have day care.