I'm not understanding the whole wedding/engagement business

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Some fun facts:

When I began working as a jeweler, in 2003, the average cost of a wedding in my state was ~$15,000. Now, according to CNN Money, it's over $30,000. http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/12/pf/planning-for-wedding-costs/

Wedding rings are known to go back in history to at least 2800 BCE. The Egyptians were big on them. Every country in the Middle East subsequently used them. Archeologists are pretty sure that cavemen tied braided grass rings around each others' extremities. The symbolism of the circle as unbreakable bond is very, very old.

Engagement rings as we know them in the West have been around since the Middle Ages, when the Church stepped in and made engagement a legal process. The groom provided an engagement ring as a sign of his serious intent. There was a period of engagement of varying length, but there did have to be a definite engagement.

Diamonds started to gain in popularity after the Archduke of Austria gave his fiancee a ring that had flat pieces of diamond in it. That was sometime in the 1700's. The art of diamond cutting was not very advanced then. The ring also had ruby, if I remember correctly.

We got married a few months ago and our budget was a little over $10,000 and our guests all commented weeks later what an incredibly nice ceremony and reception we had, one woman older than my grandmother mentioned it was the best wedding she ever attended (and she meant it). I didn't know how you could spent more than that on a wedding until I saw another wedding going on nearby.

They had several stretch limos rented and had 8 groomsmen and 8 maids of honor in matching custom made suits and dresses I doubt you could rent anywhere: they must have been $500 each minimum. The couple looked about mid 20s at most. I didn't really take a close look but they must have spent close to $50,000 on everything! Imagine what kind of downpayment you could make with that? Luckily we had help paying for ours and the wedding is the only thing my wife wanted to splurge on. I couldn't imagine spending a penny more than we did.

To the OP, I would have had no problem with an engagement ring but you can't find them anywhere around here. I never asked her parents and when they found out what I (we) did they were not surprised at all. She did not take my last name but mostly because we just got her a passport a few months prior and it wasn't worth the $200+ to change it, not to mention all the other documents that need to be changed. I personally only have a last name because I have to have one, nothing more.

To the OP: you don't have to do any of that, the key is to find someone who's on the same page with you. My wife and I don't value any of those things and we skipped them. I did other things that I knew will make her happy and as it happens they were the kind of things that made me happy too. Anyway, around these parts nobody asks the father, we don't have extravagant engagement rings, some people get wedding bands (for both), getting married at City Hall (no church ceremony) is very common and huge, flashy weddings are often seen as a sign of bad taste and showing off. Or maybe that's just my friends

GiantHockeyFan, congratulations man, I remember some of your posts about your relationship and I think you're on to something really good. And you seem to be one of those blue-eyed miracles, a man who takes responsibility for himself and learns from his mistakes I sincerely wish you and your wife the best!

It's all about tradition. The dress is for sentimental reasons. They do have wedding dress rental shops now. A lot of women are all about the ring, the dress and the wedding day and the Hunnymoon instead of who they are going to be married to.

I'm all about tradition, but I'm also a realist. Once you are married, everything is both of yours including the payment for the ring, the dress and the Hunnymoon. For myself, I'd rather spend the most on the rings (actually I'd like matching rings because it just feels more "togethery") because that is what is going to be worn after all is said and done. I don't need a fancy trip and I'd rather rent a fancy dress and have great pictures. The pictures would be very important to me for memories. A church wedding would be a must for religious reasons. The taking of the husband's last name is to show you are one and I don't know if men really understand just how much a woman is giving up by doing this - it's like giving up your identity that you are used to having your whole life.

Personally, I'd say spend the most on the things you'll have when the wedding day is over - the rings and the photos.

In Middle East both men and women wear engagement rings, I never knew that it's not the case in the West.

I know men frequently wear wedding rings in the US. I believe at least some wear engagement rings.

this part is true. people attend because they have to....i have stopped attending because they call only for formality

i had arranged marriage. my relatives and mom decided i have to marry this guy.

i didnt like his lifestyle choice of drinking, smoking, atheism but my voice was not heard as usual

i was forced to marry him and i oblilged. ring was made by his parents and my and it was exchanged

money for wedding was given by my mom and lot of things as dowry

nobody ask whether we are happy, whether we are compatible, whether we communicate.......

people blindly followed customs and did what they felt best

Wedding rings for men became customary in the West during the Second World War-tokens for men to take away with them.

I don't understand the gift giving on happy occasions. Back in the day when two newlyweds were just starting out and had nothing it was a kindness to help them out. I'm up for that. But two independent people who are combining households or who are already living together don't need anything.

If anyone needs a gift to cheer them up its us foreveralones who will never have that happiness.

Where is our day?

I hate how happy people are allowed to show off their happiness at you. Go away!

I agree with all of this. Engagement rings I can sort of understand. It's like a penguin picking out the best pebble for a potential mate or a bowerbird building a house. But they're so ridiculously expensive. They shouldn't be seen as necessary. Same with weddings. I don't see the need for most of the traditions, especially if the couple is not rich. Parties suck anyway.

Marriage rings here are called "Mahbas" and they're simple rings, stoneless and worn by both men and women.

My parents' rings look like this one:



If worn in right hand = engaged.

worn in left hand = married.


But in the last decade or so, a new trend requiring a man to buy a diamond engagement ring in addition to the Mahbas, the De Beers effect eventually hit us. It is a must-give for men now, otherwise he would be seen as cheap or not loving the woman enough.







Because of the De Beers marketing campaign that had succeeded to brainwash entire generations to make them believe that Diamond is the true symbol of love, and if man doesn't buy one then it seen as something wrong.

A man is expected to spend 2-3x his monthly salary to buy this ring.




It's pure robotic stupidity fed from romcoms - it's because they are 'supposed' to act like that.

The whole public display of proposal is so silly in my opinion; and .....it's Western in origin too, again it's a new trend in East but still most do private proposals.




Because...it's a Patriarchal system.




MARRY ME?

Umm, no ...kidding, but personally a woman with such views on marriage and wedding is a big plus for me.


Look, I don't really agree with the others here who said all of those are optional - in theory they are but in reality....not so, there is a tremendous social and peer pressure there- unless the couple are going to rebel against all family and peers.

I knew a woman who was so against the diamond ring due to ethical reasons, she is Sudanese and she normally aware of the exploit of black kids in the diamond trade.
and so she preferred to get a different gem ring, it was pink.... tourmaline I think.

However, her (female) friends kept being tacky with her, and saying stuff: like "Oh, that's so cute, what is that? A pink DIAMOND?" - "No, that's a tourmaline" - "Oh, I am sure he will get you a diamond after he gets his promotion".
And she is like so tired to explain the reasons why she is against diamonds.

I am sure there are a lot of women who prefer others gems, but they just go with the flow in order to avoid such silly and offensive comments.

Truth is, most people don't have a such deep conscience and women aren't better than men in that, therefore most women don't and won't care (even after they learn about it) about some African kids being almost enslaved and exploited to extract diamonds. ALL what they care about regarding the diamond ring is how much others (her female friends and female family members in specific) get impressed by the ring and for everyone to know how much he values her ; and the bigger the diamond the better. That's the real reason why the diamond became so important.

Diamonds are only semi-precious stones. De Beers buys them all up and hoards them in warehouses to keep the price high. I don't like diamonds because I don't enjoy being scammed.

No man with a sane mind really buys diamond rings or any expensive jeweler out of love, or because he believes that it looks great on his SO with her dress or whatever, no man I know give a damn about jewelry (the other reason for buying them would be business investment, but that's another story).

Men buy those stuff, because they are kinda socially obligated to do so; otherwise they would be judged as cheapskate (and possibly including their SO), to the extent that would seriously jeopardize the relationship.

De Beers succeeded to force men buying them by creating an ambiance of social and psychological abuse toward them.

But of a generalisation against men. Some actually like choosing jewellery that they think would suit their so. Hell my border has been looking at engagement ring for his so but they have diagreed because he likes square shaped ad she like teardrop.

Why does a man have to be insane if he enjoys buying his loved one jewelry because he things it is pretty?

I believe I am in more in touch with the manosphere and I know what men talk when no woman is around.

There are a lot of things men don't talk about when there's any female presence. ie very naughty jokes, or common behaviors among women they bitterly hate...etc
I have heard many of them saying how much they find the whole concept of diamonds and fancy wedding cermonies stupid.
A married friend once told me "a man wouldn't mind to sleep single and wakes up married the next morning without any party, the whole wedding thing is to please the woman and family."

I am not being politically correct, but this is a reality in life.


and I can assure you this: Men buy them because they're socially coerced to do so.
Just because a man thinks a ring looks uglier or prettier than the others (for equal prices) doesn't mean that he's not doing the whole thing out of social obligation and insecurity.

Don't ever think for a second that a middle-class man would be like "Ohh... this $10000 ring that my SO wishes to have looks awesome, I will it buy it because I love her so much and it would look great on her!"

What really more likely going in mind: "I better buy this ring, there are other men who can afford this".
A lot of honesty is concealed due to these socially-induced fears, I am here to shatter some of the delusions that you had in mind .