Why does society make it so much work to be a woman?!

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It's not my scenario because I don't think patriarchy explains all society's ills, and I agree that people are responsible for their own actions. I was trying to explain WHY some people choose the actions they do.

Tells me all I need to know. You don't want people to disagree with you especially if it is coming from a man. You want people to go away so you don't have worry about others having opinions differing from yours, and you can believe what ever you want without question.

^The rules also mention that men are welcome here if they are respectful.
This isn't a women's only thread and I don't see any disrespectful behaviour from the male posters, nothing that warrants provoking comments like being told to get out!
I mean exclusion is something that both genders can relate to here on WP, I know that being told to get out would touch on a sensitised aspect of my feelings.

The general rules apply here too... viewtopic.php?t=263570

It is a valid hypothesis I just don't happens to by it.

Since he's part of the accused group he has a right to defend himself.

It ceases to be a woman's discussion the moment the moment you accuse men.

If you want to do that you should take it to PPR.

See this is where I'm not wholly convinced. I'm not sure in what way men could have perpetrated women's makeup habits, and is there any historical or anthropological evidence for this? Heterosexual men generally know little about women's beatification habits. Well men are more feminized these days and doing some of the makeup too. However this also happened in ancient times too. Tribal makeup was for other reasons too. Still I don't really see it as much of a conspiracy against women.

I think the taboo subject is female competition. Ask any biologist or behaviorist, the elephant in the room is that women compete with one another and the is the driving force behind many of these behaviors. It is true for other animals and primates so why wouldn't it be true for humans? Of course it has something to do with men, but that is not the same as saying they a responsible. Or it is some patriarchal conspiracy.

If I was to give my answer why it is hard for many women in this case, female competition would be on the top of the list. Not the only reason but a big one.

If men aren't aware of what women look like without makeup, could they be blamed for this? Personally I am aware, but I am astounded to learn just how much of a transformation it can be. I had no idea at one point.

Also there is little moral high ground what one finds attractive. If a person doesn't find x attractive, they can't complain if someone doesn't find y attractive about them. Yes there are some beauty memes but it is also quite personal. Real life is just like that, not ideally padded. There are harsh realities, but it is part of normal preference.

You have to look at who actually sets women's beauty trends. It is not heterosexual men that are behind glossy women's mags, and the appearance and body types within. There is market for them clearly, as there is with magazine like Hello!

Good one wilburforce...it is on youtube, here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyeTJVU4wVo

I don't see much difference between telling a woman she doesn't need makeup, and telling her that she does.

Yes, respectful of the fact that they are not women and can't really understand our experiences firsthand and because of that they should defer to listening mode when women are talking about things that they can't understand firsthand (like why we do or don't wear makeup, and what pressures we do or don't feel and from where in regards to makeup) instead of lecturing us about how we do this to ourselves and otherwise explaining our own experiences to us like we aren't living our own lives firsthand and they somehow know better about our own situation than we do. It is patronising and disrespectful, and I'm tired of being lectured at about my own f*****g life from someone who isn't living it.

But as I said, there is no sense in getting upset about it.

I've noticed something interesting. I generally don't wear makeup. I'm not the best looking person in the world, but I have pretty good skin with good coloring. While they don't approach me, and I certainly would reject them if they did (and tell their wives that their husband made a pass at me), I notice that married men are more likely than single men to eye me. I suspect that one of the reasons for this is, they are more likely to know what women actually look like, as they have seen their wives without makeup, and so possibly are more inclined than single men to think I am good looking.

But what drives female competition? Most women aren't competing with each other for mates, they're competing for social/societal power. In a patriarchy this power comes from men, which is why looking attractive makes many women feel more secure and powerful.
Have you ever seen an unattractive female and an attractive female have an argument? I saw it over and over in school, and every time the males in the room would side with the more attractive female. Adult society functions the same way. In every circumstance, a more attractive woman is treated as more "valuable" than a less attractive one. That is what feeds women's desire for fashion mags, etc. Not a desire for a mate, but a desire for social safety and respectful treatment.

It rings true with me too. I hate wearing those tight fitting formal clothes but I have to everyday, it's in the office dress code. If I was in a meeting wearing t shirt and trackpants, I wouldn't be taken seriously.

Not just clothing for me. A few years ago I had a weight problem. People didn't take me seriously. If I got into an argument with a fit guy, I was assumed to be the loser by default. He was considered to be a "real man" and I was just some fatass.

Back then I went to a lot of job interviews and got passed over. When they saw my rotund body they thought "if he's too lazy to exercise then he's too lazy to work here".

I became quite depressed about my weight and I starved myself. I lost 120 pounds. People took me seriously. I got a job.