Board index › Age/Gender related discussions › Women's Discussion

the treatment of women on wrongplanet

Page 10 of 24 [ 372 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 ... 24  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Nights_Like_These
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 722
Location: Ontario, Canada

23 May 2014, 1:39 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
to tallyman--this is the problem. you talk about education being more effective than enforcement, but what about those who are "educated" about sexism time and time again and re-offend anyway, like bill here? do you really believe he doesn't understand, or is it perhaps possible that he doesn't want to understand? how is education about sexism helping them or the rest of us on the site who have to listen to their sexism whenever we come to wrongplanet? i don't think that many people would end up banned if sexism were moderated in the same way that racism is--i think that a handful of guys who've had plenty of opportunity to educate themselves and to be educated by others about sexism and refuse the education because they prefer to keep hating will get banned--the rest will learn once they've been warned that they can't get away with it and will keep it to themselves or actually figure out that women are people too. either way, works for me.


StarvingArtist, he's f***ing with you is. He is educated but he does not give a damn. He's screwing with you like he screws with both of his gf's. He is trying to emotionally goad you and he regards you like he regards them.


If he even has 2 gf's. I'm not sure if he's just trying to f**k with people or if it's a matter of education or not, but what I do know is I've seen him (as I'm sure others have) behaving in a rather predatory way toward women on this site.



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,958

23 May 2014, 1:46 pm

Nights_Like_These wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
to tallyman--this is the problem. you talk about education being more effective than enforcement, but what about those who are "educated" about sexism time and time again and re-offend anyway, like bill here? do you really believe he doesn't understand, or is it perhaps possible that he doesn't want to understand? how is education about sexism helping them or the rest of us on the site who have to listen to their sexism whenever we come to wrongplanet? i don't think that many people would end up banned if sexism were moderated in the same way that racism is--i think that a handful of guys who've had plenty of opportunity to educate themselves and to be educated by others about sexism and refuse the education because they prefer to keep hating will get banned--the rest will learn once they've been warned that they can't get away with it and will keep it to themselves or actually figure out that women are people too. either way, works for me.


StarvingArtist, he's f***ing with you is. He is educated but he does not give a damn. He's screwing with you like he screws with both of his gf's. He is trying to emotionally goad you and he regards you like he regards them.


If he even has 2 gf's. I'm not sure if he's just trying to f**k with people or if it's a matter of education or not, but what I do know is I've seen him (as I'm sure others have) behaving in a rather predatory way toward women on this site.



Yes, that is exactly what he is doing. I have the feeling he is doing one of the things out of the PUA handbook. I'm not sure. He may have 2 gf's though, who knows and he may be emotionally manipulating them.

It is coincidental though that when I said what I said to Bill that a virus almost came onto my computer and it is a good thing that I have an awesome anti-virus scanner. I do wonder why a virus almost came onto my computer when I said what I said to Bill. Maybe it is just coincidence. I don't know.



billiscool
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Feb 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,989

23 May 2014, 2:01 pm

sexism is when you say ''all women like jerks''
''all women are whores''that sexism people.
being anti-feminist,anti-fat women(Im not
BTW,just an example)anti-drunk girl
is not sexism.Yes,they shouldn't get bash,
but it's not sexism.Sexism is against all women.

saying hateful thing towards fat women
is not sexism,is just being an as*hole
(just an example,fat women should not
be hated)



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,958

23 May 2014, 2:06 pm

billiscool wrote:
sexism is when you say ''all women like jerks''
''all women are whores''that sexism people.
being anti-feminist,anti-fat women(Im not
BTW,just an example)anti-drunk girl
is not sexism.Yes,they shouldn't get bash,
but it's not sexism.Sexism is against all women.

saying hateful thing towards fat women
is not sexism,is just being an as*hole
(just an example,fat women should not
be hated)


God Bill, now you're just playing semantic word games. Well Bill, we all know what conclusion we can draw from "is not sexism,is just being an as*hole" I would say it but it would go against the wrongplanet rules.



starvingartist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,032

23 May 2014, 2:08 pm

billiscool wrote:
sexism is when you say ''all women like jerks''
''all women are whores''that sexism people.
being anti-feminist,anti-fat women(Im not
BTW,just an example)anti-drunk girl
is not sexism.Yes,they shouldn't get bash,
but it's not sexism.Sexism is against all women.

saying hateful thing towards fat women
is not sexism,is just being an as*hole
(just an example,fat women should not
be hated)


bill, we are not the ones who don't/won't understand what sexism is.

edit* in regards to saying hateful things about fat women--if you single out fat women (as opposed to fat people which includes fat men) then yes, you are being sexist.



billiscool
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Feb 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,989

23 May 2014, 2:21 pm

so is bashing conservative men consider being anti-men
is bashing ''nice guys'' anti male sexist.
So if some guy say he ''hates fat women,and
fat women are gross''is he sexist

if a woman says she ''hates short guys,and
short guys are gross''is she sexist?

is saying all MRA are x,y,z is that sexism
towards men



Nights_Like_These
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 722
Location: Ontario, Canada

23 May 2014, 2:23 pm

billiscool wrote:
so is bashing conservative men consider being anti-men
is bashing ''nice guys'' anti male sexist.
So if some guy say he ''hates fat women,and
fat women are gross''is he sexist

if a woman says she ''hates short guys,and
short guys are gross''is she sexist?

is saying all MRA are x,y,z is that sexism
towards men


Yes, sexism can be perpetrated against men as well. No one is saying it can't be.



billiscool
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Feb 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,989

23 May 2014, 2:26 pm

so,when women say MRA are x,y,z are they
sexist towards men? Women who shame
short guys are they sexist towards men.



Nights_Like_These
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 722
Location: Ontario, Canada

23 May 2014, 2:29 pm

billiscool wrote:
so,when women say MRA are x,y,z are they
sexist towards men? Women who shame
short guys are they sexist towards men.


See above.



starvingartist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,032

23 May 2014, 2:32 pm

billiscool wrote:
so,when women say MRA are x,y,z are they
sexist towards men? Women who shame
short guys are they sexist towards men.


if you are referencing a post i made about MRAs, i will admit i was perhaps hasty in my judgment, and maybe not all MRAs are bitter and angry--the reason i made that post is that all i have seen in all the MRA materials i have encountered thus far (all the blogs, articles, etc i have read by MRAs) were bitter and angry towards women as well as being inaccurate and misinformed. if there are MRAs out there that are not like that, then i apologise to them. however, i have yet to encounter anyone who self-identifies as an MRA that was not hateful (or even threatening) towards me for being female, so i have as yet not needed to apologise.



billiscool
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Feb 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,989

23 May 2014, 2:33 pm

Nights_Like_These wrote:
billiscool wrote:
so,when women say MRA are x,y,z are they
sexist towards men? Women who shame
short guys are they sexist towards men.


See above.


no,if they only attack MRA or short guys,are they sexist.
They like other men,they just bash MRA men only
(say false stuff about them)are they sexist towards men



billiscool
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Feb 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,989

23 May 2014, 2:38 pm

starvingartist wrote:

if you are referencing a post i made about MRAs, i will admit i was perhaps hasty in my judgment, and maybe not all MRAs are bitter and angry--the reason i made that post is that all i have seen in all the MRA materials i have encountered thus far (all the blogs, articles, etc i have read by MRAs) were bitter and angry towards women as well as being inaccurate and misinformed. if there are MRAs out there that are not like that, then i apologise to them. however, i have yet to encounter anyone who self-identifies as an MRA that was not hateful (or even threatening) towards me for being female, so i have as yet not needed to apologise.



so,If you can be against MRA and not be a sexist.Then men
who are only against feminist are not sexist,either,right?



tarantella64
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,850

23 May 2014, 2:43 pm

TallyMan wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Tallyman, this was one of the most well written responses I have ever seen and I agree with it. If the moderators start enforcing the rules against sexism more strongly would the mods be willing to give all the perpetrators some chances to redeem themselves by

1st Give a verbal warning

2nd. Give a month suspension

3rd. Then permanently band them.


The moderators would need the support of Alex for an increased level of intervention regarding sexism. Spongy tried some time ago in the L&D forum but Alex stopped him. I suspect that Alex did so because there would be a lot of bloodshed and quite a number of members would find themselves reprimanded and subsequently banned. We have essentially a zero tolerance policy towards racist and homophobic posts and those who harbour such attitudes generally know better than to express them. We don't have many problems with racism and homophobia on this site. Sexism is a different matter, it rears its ugly head all over the site in varying degrees from minor offhand remarks that could be construed as sexist to full out blatant sexism. We do act when it is blatant - I've personally banned people for such remarks when continued after a warning.

I'll see if I can find the specifics of the dialogue between Alex and spongy and see if we can get Alex to support a more aggressive anti-sexism policy. However, like I've said, I view education as a much better approach than the big stick. I've got doubts though that some members will be able to adapt or even comprehend and acknowledge that they are being sexist.


Well, that really is a very serious problem. But some of the work is already being done here: write up a policy. "These sorts of statements [example, example, example] are sexist because reasons [supported by link, link, link for further self-education, should you be interested]. Your personal belief that this is 'not sexist, just true' will not counteract the policy, and if you post along these lines you'll be warned and eventually banned."

As I've said elsewhere, if nothing else, a policy like that ought to be viewed as self-defense. These fora aren't invisible, and the last thing guys with AS need is a reputation as being incorrigibly sexist, prone to saying awful things about and to women, right down to "sometimes I fantasize about raping women, is that a problem."

In the end, though, you're looking at the ability to keep such members v. the ability to make an environment that's safe and welcoming to women with AS. There are plenty of misogyny-driven cesspools on the internet, but I don't see why this has to be one of them.



tarantella64
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,850

23 May 2014, 2:47 pm

billiscool wrote:
so,when women say MRA are x,y,z are they
sexist towards men? Women who shame
short guys are they sexist towards men.


The bit about MRAs depends on what's being said. There are MRA leaders who come out with quite astonishing quotes in media, and if you're referring to those or similar, then no, that's not sexist. (Usually when people call out MRAs they're describing specifically sexist, misogynist things said or done by these MRAs.) And I don't know where you're hearing women shaming short guys for being short, but if they do, then yes, that's sexist.



tarantella64
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,850

23 May 2014, 2:48 pm

billiscool wrote:
starvingartist wrote:

if you are referencing a post i made about MRAs, i will admit i was perhaps hasty in my judgment, and maybe not all MRAs are bitter and angry--the reason i made that post is that all i have seen in all the MRA materials i have encountered thus far (all the blogs, articles, etc i have read by MRAs) were bitter and angry towards women as well as being inaccurate and misinformed. if there are MRAs out there that are not like that, then i apologise to them. however, i have yet to encounter anyone who self-identifies as an MRA that was not hateful (or even threatening) towards me for being female, so i have as yet not needed to apologise.



so,If you can be against MRA and not be a sexist.Then men
who are only against feminist are not sexist,either,right?


No. MRAs are misogynists. Feminists are not, in general, misandrists.



cubedemon6073
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Nov 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,958

23 May 2014, 2:51 pm

Quote:
Well, that really is a very serious problem. But some of the work is already being done here: write up a policy. "These sorts of statements [example, example, example] are sexist because reasons [supported by link, link, link for further self-education, should you be interested]. Your personal belief that this is 'not sexist, just true' will not counteract the policy, and if you post along these lines you'll be warned and eventually banned."

As I've said elsewhere, if nothing else, a policy like that ought to be viewed as self-defense. These fora aren't invisible, and the last thing guys with AS need is a reputation as being incorrigibly sexist, prone to saying awful things about and to women, right down to "sometimes I fantasize about raping women, is that a problem."

In the end, though, you're looking at the ability to keep such members v. the ability to make an environment that's safe and welcoming to women with AS. There are plenty of misogyny-driven cesspools on the internet, but I don't see why this has to be one of them.


Tarantella, I never considered this angle but you're right. I'm not a rapist or sexist and I don't want that put upon me. We don't need to be labeled as sexists and rapists as a reputation. We don't need that.