Women only please

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I have to disagree. Humanist movements that existed before feminism, excluded females from the rights and benefits they sought and achieved. What you are suggesting is a step backwards, not forwards, and while you can talk about equality meaning equal for everyone, the historical facts prove that without dedicated efforts to ensure the inclusion of females, we are excluded.
While not all humanist efforts have been feminist (or equalist), any genuinely feminist effort will be equalist and humanist. Of course many efforts that are not really feminist can and have been described as such, just as many less than desirable things can and have been wrapped in a veneer of respectability achieved by claiming (and perhaps even through proponents believing) that the efforts subscribe or fit some respectable intended goal.


When I say humanist, I'm not talking about a school of thought from a bygone era, I'm saying stop focussing on women's rights and start thinking of in terms of human rights. Make this work for women AND men. This is very much a step forward.
What does "without dedicated efforts to ensure the inclusion of females, we are excluded" mean? Who's going to ensure the inclusion of females? Females of course (and some males). Women in the western world need to shake off the victim mentality, blaming men for their oppressing ways. We have it pretty good. Not perfect, there's always going to be issues that need ironing out. But we contribute way too much to the economy to be overlooked. I think its time to start paying some attention to how feminism is affecting men. It seems to me that many are turning into whiny little b*****s or rabid misogynists and that can't be a good thing.

And for those of us who legitamtly were victims, such as I with child abuse? I don't know of any females with a victim mentality, I don't, and most would think I should. Sure the past hurts, but I deal with it and move forward. I assume that there aren't too many of us who play the victim role willingly.

When I responded I was not responding to how you think your suggestion would pan out. You can have theories about how you think something would work out, but where there is plenty of historical evidence to the contrary, and an absence of any evidence to support your view, you cannot reasonably expect others to find your views likely.



Saying “make this work” is not the same as actually achieving it. It may not even be plausible to expect what you are suggesting to work. Humans only have so much time and attention, and specialization is a significant tactic for overcoming constraints related to these limitations. There is no evidence whatsoever that we can generate the same results in human rights and human quality of life (including equality and inclusion) without the efficiencies achieved through specialization.
It means without efforts advocating for and attempting to achieve female inclusion, we cannot expect female inclusion will simply occur; without such dedicated efforts, females have not been included in the general benefits derived from humanist achievements.

You type as though feminism necessarily requires either a mentality that females are victims, or the blaming of males as oppressors. If you believe that, then you are simply misinformed.


Thanks to feminist efforts and achievements.


I think you’ll find that a significant proportion of humans being either bigots or some variety of whinny b*****s, or both these things at once, was the case long before feminism was extant.

When I get into my car, I lock myself in. When I get home, I lock myself in. If I go into the work canteen alone, I lock myself in. When I visit friends, we all sit inside, and we lock ourselves in. When I go anywhere, I make sure that I am not alone, or that I can lock myself in. Because whether I like it or not I'm female, and thus if I'm out I'm regarded as automatic prey in the world's eyes.

In this aspect, how exactly are we different from women living in Saudi Arabia?

When I no longer have to do that, when I can sit outside, drive with my windows down, walk to work, like my male acquaintances already do, then I'll consider feminism to have no more work to do.

good point

I find it funny how most women take feminism for granted and can't relate to it.

If it weren't for the feminist movement, I wouldn't have been able to vote, I wouldn't have been able to own property or publish a book without a man's permission, I wouldn't have gone to a college that taught the same courses as it did men, I would've had to dress a "feminine" way like wearing a dress in the freazing cold, I wouldn't have been payed an equal amount of wages as my male counter part because the assumption would've been that I was already married with children and that I just wanted to make a little extra money on the side.

There are so many other things that the femenist movement has done to help women better themselves in the real world. I do not look at it as defining females but rather giving females the chance to be who they want to be not who they should be.

It is interesting how so many females say "I can't relate to females and this doesn't concern me"....I'd have to ask which females and why it doesn't it concern you? This femenism movement had nothing to do with being feminine but rather to have a voice in leadership and a choice in being a person. Most traditional societies did not value these rights and still do not in many countries and religions.

If there's anything I've learned in the west, it's that women can also be eachother's worst enemy. I think if it hadn't been for some of these women who stepped up to the plate, then none of us would be getting do most of the things we now take for granted.

Anyway just my two cents. Like I said there are women out there that go to the extremes just like any movement of people including liberal groups, religious groups, environmentalists, race riots, and so on. It just a bit ironic in my observation how quick women and men will stick it to the next best man but not so when it's a female in the matter. Something I seem to notice more of by both genders lol.

Last edited by MissConstrue on 14 Sep 2009, 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/14/ye ... index.html
the above is about a 12year old girl who was forced to marry and died in childbirth this is why we still have work to do. they can call me names acuse me of being gay or a man hater all they want but as long as this sort of BS goes on any were in the world I will not sit quitely.