both genders are to blame for sexism

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well put.



agreed. the word "feminism" has such negative connotations to some people that they do not want to identify with it.

a lot of gender is a social construct. i don't mean that men and women are necessarily the same, but a lot of stereotypical male and female behavior is learned behavior and varies from one culture to another, just like concepts of "sanity" and normal displays of affection, etc.

much of what's acceptable is simply what benefits a particular society. i have always hated the concept of "status quo" and think everything should be questioned. it is only when you ponder these things that you can glimpse who you really are, which rarely has anything to do with gender, race, sexual orientation, religious upbringing, etc. etc. these things color one's experience, but should not create the experience.

how is taking a poke or not taking a poke 'equal rights?' Didn't the male pokee have anything to say about being poked in the first place? Is that a guy thing? If some guy wanted to rough house with me I would smack him a good one!

that term is stigmatized, especially now. yet even if some feminists have gone too far by promoting misandry, it is illogical to throw out the baby with the bathwater. 100 years ago, feminism meant a woman's right to self determination. today it is different.

Last edited by petitesouris on 23 May 2010, 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wonderful point. i have never understood the purpose of psychological studies on gender and race, because they assume that members of a certain group are all carbon copies of each other.

and who denigrated the word to appear negative ? Those whose status quo was threatened, that's who. With out a name to rally round it effectively cuts off the networking between those who would challenge the status quo.

And that is absolutely true. They will not be able to find a husband. And with no husband, the daughter is forced to live at her parents. The parents don't want an unmarried daughter, because it is a huge financial burden, and brings shame to the family that she is unmarried. So, they'll kick her out of the house. She has no husband, and no family, so she can't work because she's seen as a "shameful worthless slut". She can't afford food and shelter. She'll probably get raped because again, she's worthless. She can't move because she doesn't know it will be different if she goes to other countries. Compared to this life, genital mutilation sounds pretty good.

Young girls rush to get their genitals mutilated because then it means they are "women", like in the western world, girls rush to buy a bra and put make-up on, because then they are "women".
The older women encourage her to have her genitals mutilated because they themselves know what will happen to the girl if she is not able to find a husband.

They could move to another country, but who is going to sponsor them? You need a sponsor when moving to another country, someone who already lives in said country. And how are they supposed to know that getting their genitals cut and sewn is "not normal", if they don't know better?

Heck, I don't remember what tribe it was, but boys only became men when they sucked the tribe elders' dick. And "received" semen that way. How are they supposed to know that's not normal? That's how they grew up! They don't know any different! So ofcourse, they really want to do it, because they really want to be men, not boys!

It's not a black and white a matter as it sounds.

it is kind of upsetting that some really sexist people seem to beleive that women and men should not have equal rights just because they might be wired a bit differently. even if, hypothetically, there was something biological that hindered women's success outside of domestic work, does that mean we should throw away all the progress made in the past 100 years it would be like forbidding aspies to work just because they have a hard time getting hired.

also, i have noticed that the more successful women become, the stronger these biological determinism arguements become. it is like its proponents are desperate to prove a theory which evidence contradicts. they also seem to beleive that the decreasing gap in education and employment between men and women is only due to affirmative action.

biological determinists argue that gender differences are not social constructs, yet did it ever occur to them that such differences could become genetically engrained in men and women after generations of imposition of gender roles did they ever consider that such differences could be reversible because the brain has so much plasticity

It is no longer societally correct to say that women are just inferior because they're women, which is kinda cool because that's progress compared to 20-30 years ago. Also society is less religious and more diverse in religious views so it's no longer viable to say "women are icky because the Bible/Koran/Torah/etc. says so." Biology and science and pop psychology that attributes all human behaviours to our prehistoric ancestors (nevermind that we don't actually know too much about them and a lot of the arguments sound like they come from watching too much Flintstones cartoons) so they use that to argue women's natural inferiority. And if women are naturally inferior, then any success on their part must, by that logic be artificial. Of course, those things being false, it's inevitable that they'll eventually be discredited and they'll have to come up with something new.

this is the same as the grown up child victims of pedophile priests testified, that the priests were initiating them into 'man hood' by allowing themselves to be molested - and the secret was never to be shared on pain of hell fire for betraying the inner secrets of the religion.

it is never as cut and dried as it seems to be.

i am guessing that ardent followers of biological theories that support sexism would probably argue that exceptions to their theories are merely mistakes or aberrations.

Same as any other "theory" where the conclusion has been made and the evidence forced to fit - anything that doesn't conform to the conclusion needs to be discredited or ignored. Same as the anti-vaccine crowd, you can give them dozens of reputable studies and they'll still maintain their beliefs because it's not about being accurate, it's about proving a point. I think a lot of people who espouse sexist theories feel that they have something to lose by being wrong and as long as people buy into the theories, they can continue to be wrong and not suffer the consequences.

Of course all these societies who view women as a burden overlook the fact that a woman can work and earn for the family. As far as most African tribes go, the women actually do most of the work.

China's reason for wanting boys and abandoning, aborting, or killing already born female babies isn't particularly logical either. The prefer boys because he can carry the family name and doesn't leave the family. However there's no reason at all why a woman can't carry a family name or stay with her family to support it.

Their logic is even counterproductive as they now have something million more men than women so those men will not have children to carry on the family name.

And women have an equal hand in perpetuating this situation as it is even the Chinese women who deem babies of their own gender non-human enough to throw away. They having a saying that women are like "maggots in the rice".

Ofcourse, as well as in many countries, women do much work, but don't get paid much or anything for it.

Heck, even I couldn't work, because my dad wouldn't let me. (He passed away now) Neither could any of my sisters.
And even though we had fantastic grades in school, my parents wouldn't let us go out, for example, I couldn't go buy bread by myself. I had to go with my brother, or (! !! !) a dog! The dog was allowed out more than I was!

And even though we were behaved, my dad did not let us get driving licenses. We had to find the money for it. And like I said, he wouldn't let us work.
My two brothers, though, they had horrible grades, did bad things, and my parents would buy them cars, the driving license, their houses.

And we girls had to fend for ourselves.

I was very interested in computers since a little girl, and even learned how to program without ever touching a computer.
But I begged for a computer, and they wouldn't buy me one.
But they bought my brother 2 computers, and many console games, and I was not allowed to touch them. Because I was a girl. And he didn't even care about computers!

And I'm not from a "bad" place like China or the Middle East!


That, and if it is the same as in India, and the Middle East, then the man inherits everything, even what belonged to the woman's family, and she will have nothing.


If those women don't throw away their own female babies, then the husband will, and if he won't then the family will.
It's not that they believe female babies are non-human, it's that the woman doesn't want her female baby to have the same sad life that she herself has had!

What do you want her to do?


And by the way...

I live in the United States of America, and because I want to keep my own name,. lots of Americans are giving me crap for it.
And that's the USA. Now, imagine less fortunate places.



And the reason the woman won't stay with her family, is because, 1) she is a burden to the family and 2) she wont be able to work a job that pays well, and 3) if she does work such a job, she won't be able to raise her children herself.

Ya I notice this too. Sadly many people don't get the difference between accepting that there are some inborn differences between the sexes, and pigeonholing people according to gender into roles they may or may not wish to adopt. I have had conservative morons try and verbally bludgeon me into giving up activities I love because 'you're a girl, and girls are hardwired for nurturing, not for *insert action here*'.

just wondering, why did you listen to him about not working? were you living with your parents at that time? also, i hope you do not mind if i ask, but were your parents originally from another country?

it is sad that so many intelligent women are forced into housework. all that wasted potential, for the women discriminated against and for society that could benefit from it.

Last edited by petitesouris on 26 May 2010, 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i have always hated nosy hypocrites who feel free to dictate the personal lives of others, regardless of their political views. what someone decides to do for a career or for recreation is no one's business, unless it harms someone else.

also even if some think that women working outside of the home is "immoral" or "unbecoming", they must realize that women working outside of the home have no less work ethic than stay at home moms. it is wrong to disparage someone's hard work just because of personal dislikes

Last edited by petitesouris on 27 May 2010, 7:00 am, edited 2 times in total.