Mystified by the problems of other women

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"when some random short, no-social-skills creep - you know the type that stand around the dance floor like ret*ds staring at all the women"

It was awful that he approached you only to insult you, and with no desire to show positive attention. He was almost definitely putting you down to feel better about himself, likely after years of being looked at by women as a "no-social-skills creep" who "stares like a ret*d" at women, EVEN by women on the AUTISM spectrum, even those who have never had a positive connection with the opposite sex themselves! I guess I feel more sorry for you than for him, but only because you had to hear his opinion of you.

What Baltic country are you from, OP? Just out of curiosity.

hurtloam - I'm on a board for Aspergers, I don't expect flawless tact:D And generally I'm not easy to offend, if I was, I'd walk around all day pissed given how sensitive people generally are about my feelings. I take care to hold my back straight when I walk, that includes my shoulders, though if you've seen, women generally don't have a very stiff posture and their shoulders are more relaxed. I don't usually discuss intellectual matters at a club and when all you say to someone is one sentence, or maybe nothing at all, I don't see how I can go so wrong with that to warrant that type of treatment. Those people who mistreat me or call me a dog or ugly I haven't talked to at ALL. I once had a teacher be really nasty and arrogant to me ONLY because of how I looked though I was friendly to him.

buryuntime - All those things might be true, but the fact is my looks is cited as a reason for that. If I was attractive all that stuff about smiling etc, wouldn't matter, I still wouldn't get picked on by straight men, but straight men only see appearance, so I'd still have negative encounters with them, even though I would improve on smile, posture etc. Besides, I don't really see the point if only straight men are as*holes:D Maybe just wearing pepper spray more often would be a better solution. And taking martial arts classes. Besides, it'd be impossible to prove I have no "vibe" that puts off straight men, so it's just a theory that can't be proven or disproven in any way, hence, useless.

hale_bopp - he looked way too wimpy to rape anyone:D He'd get beaten up by a grandmother:D

biostructure - After my life experiences, I have zero sympathy for men, no matter how much they winge that the hot women they creep on won't give them a shot. It's not your birthright to get laid, and, unlike me, a man can actually DO something to get laid. If he's too stupid to handle that it's better he's out the gene pool. I've never had a HOT guy say a bad word to me, thye just ignore me and keep their opinion to themselves, so creeps are s*** in my book.

My whole point is, though, that if I was attractive to men like a normal woman it wouldn't matter if I walked bent over and yelled at everyone I met:D I'd probably still be married by now:D So the reason would still be ugliness, no matter if I did something else wrong, or not. Or do you think men spit at attractive women on the street, too?

The thing, only straight men react negatively to me. Gay men are very friendly to me. So are women. If I did something wrong, well, there are plenty of bitchy gay guys who'd be glad to tell me to my face, but so far I've had no problem with them.

LOL. I think it's interesting you brought gay men into the equation because I can relate. With the very limited friends and people who I got along with, most of them were gay or bisexual. I'm not sure why this is except maybe they can understand or relate feeling left out. Just to be clear, I don't think it was just my "ugliness" as I knew women who were very overweight or not what I'd consider ideally attractive who would have not just one man, but frequent men coming and going into their lives. I knew one very overweight girl who was a bully to me and yet somehow she was able to get men just like that. But she was outgoing and very pushy. If she wanted something, she went right after it. I will say though, at least pretty women can compensate for their lack of social skills. People like us are kind of invisible. I don't consider myself as ugly as I was in highschool thus not picked on as much as I use to be but still nonetheless invisible. In highschool and in some of my years in college it was very painful. I even remember being confused about my sexuality because I'd get derogatory comments and names about me being a lesbian or dyke. It was very hard for me and still is to make myself up like most women. But why I was accused of being a homosexual in the most insulting way, I'll never understand except that people knew I didn't date and was mostly to myself. I think this also helped perpuate me as an easy target. I often wonder if part of this has affected me in areas of relationship. Even when men do show an interest, I feel like they are only looking at me from a glance. If they knew me better, they'd be put off. I've always had this problem, not being able to feel comfortable in my own skin much less being able to express my sexuality in the "normal" way.

bluerose ... I'm very sorry you've had to go through all this. Here's a thought I had ... perhaps you've already done this, and I apologize if so ... but maybe you could go to the cosmetics section of a large department store and see about getting a makeover. Those women are usually very good at what they do and they should have some constructive ideas on other things as well.

I think it's very important for women to feel ok about their appearance. Obviously, only a tiny number of women are blessed (cursed?) with movie star looks, but I truly believe that almost all women have a beauty to them that is their own. The exceptions, in my opinion, are those women who are mean-spirited or bitter or hateful, because those attitudes show in their faces.

But for the rest of us, I think it's a matter of finding the right combination of hair, makeup, clothes, attitude, posture, or whatever it takes to bring out our natural beauty.

Please don't give up. And don't let yourself succumb to bitterness. You're obviously a very intelligent, articulate woman. Bitterness would not become you at all.

OP, you're not alone as far as relating to other women. I don't do make up, clothes, fashion, babies etc. so have nothing to talk to them about.

However I don't think being "ugly" precludes you from attracting\finding a male partner. There are heaps of "less pretty" people around with boyfriends, husbands etc. I've seen really really fat ugly people find a partner and get married - its not about looks, there is more to it than that. I would always wonder why they would have partners, but I was alone, never approached, not spoken to etc. I know that in my natural aspie state, I repel people, so had to work really hard on that.

Its likely that if you perceive yourself as ugly, unattractive, and never likely to find a partner, then you will subconsciously give out these vibes, which can make you unapproachable, and undesirable.

Also I think you're probably looking in the wrong places - if you are fit and healthy, wouldn't it be better to try and meet someone in a gym, walking \jogging group etc? You're more likely to have things in common.

Even people with nasty burns, scarring and facial disfigurement have partners (and kids) - not every man is looking for a trophy wife, just the shallow egocentric ones.......

MissConstrue - Yeah, I get along great with gay men. Lesbians are a different issue, but they're the same as men, except for the femmy ones of course. I don't think overweight equals ugly, I've seen several overweight and chubby women with pretty faces and no problem with men, it's all about the face with them - the one thing you can't help. I've never had confusion about my sexuality, I've never felt the slightest attraction towards women. Since I've always dressed kind of feminine - very dorky, but still, that saved me from the whole dyke thing. Don't let it stop you from expressing your femininity - you're as much of a woman as anyone else if you feel you are. This really is all about the way you feel, not what people judge you as based on their own narrowminded stereotyping. As far as dating is concerned, I don't think I could ever date, even if someone did show an interest. I don't think I could fall in love with anyone, as I've grown very cynical of that and would expect him to leave me as soon as he got so much as a hello from someone who is more physically attractive. My experiences with men have made me realize their shallowness goes to the bone and they're not worth loving.

CaroleTucson - Oh I've had more makeovers than you can count:D I don't know what you mean by giving up, but I'm not the type that wallows in self-pity, and nothing can stop me from living

kahlua - I've evaluated my vibe a lot of times, and the thing is, I never believed those things about myself until they became glaringly obvious. I used to be very confident and bubbly, etc. I still am, but not around men anymore, as men get very hostile with confident, ugly women. I used to smile at men, too, but they took it as a sign of weakness, or maybe they thought the fugly girl was trying to hit on them, so they got hostile and I learned to stay back, not smile, and keep my guard up at all times with them. I used to go to this great gym, been thinking about starting to go again. Lots of friendly, cheerful people there The thing is, my condition is a lot different than burns, etc. A person can have burns or a scar and still have nice facial features and symmetry. It all depends on bone structure. But if ALL my facial features are out of whack, I don't think you can compare that with someone who just has one fault, even if it's a big one. Also, people are a lot more sympathetic to people with disfigurements, whereeas if you're ugly because you were born that way they don't tend to have sympathy for that.