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Aristophanes
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15 Sep 2015, 8:24 pm

Peacesells wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
I said it once like 10 pages back, and I'll say it again: Add gender back to the profiles, make a men's forum and a women's forum and make it so they're only readable by the appropriate gender. Problem solved.

And let's do it because... TWO women complained that they feel observed by men?


Here's rule number 2 of the women's forum:

2) Involvement of male members.
While Wrong Planet rules do not prohibit posting by men in the Women’s Discussion, men who venture into this forum need to approach any reading or posting they do with an element of respect for the fact that they have just walked in on a conversation that should have little to do with them. This forum is intended to be more friendly to women, and to focus on issues unique to them.

Be honest, how many of the males complaining here have even bothered to look at the rules for this forum?

Fnord wrote:
No need to make another account. Just go to your settings page, select whichever sex is appropriate for the subforum you want to post in, and switch the sex setting back when you are done posting there.
Some people should just get used to the idea that whatever they post on this website will eventually be read by someone they don't like.


It's as easy as a connection to the database to see if the column has been filled out, if there's already information in there the radio select is disabled. Sure people can make dummy accounts and view, but if they start posting crap from a male perspective it just makes it easier to locate them, since well, they've all gathered in one place for the slaughter. What exactly is your approach? Do nothing and call it progress? With a winning attitude like that no wonder...and I'll stop there and let you fill out that sentence with your imagination.



Lukeda420
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15 Sep 2015, 8:52 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
I said it once like 10 pages back, and I'll say it again: Add gender back to the profiles, make a men's forum and a women's forum and make it so they're only readable by the appropriate gender. Problem solved.

And let's do it because... TWO women complained that they feel observed by men?


Here's rule number 2 of the women's forum:

2) Involvement of male members.
While Wrong Planet rules do not prohibit posting by men in the Women’s Discussion, men who venture into this forum need to approach any reading or posting they do with an element of respect for the fact that they have just walked in on a conversation that should have little to do with them. This forum is intended to be more friendly to women, and to focus on issues unique to them.

Be honest, how many of the males complaining here have even bothered to look at the rules for this forum?

Fnord wrote:
No need to make another account. Just go to your settings page, select whichever sex is appropriate for the subforum you want to post in, and switch the sex setting back when you are done posting there.
Some people should just get used to the idea that whatever they post on this website will eventually be read by someone they don't like.


It's as easy as a connection to the database to see if the column has been filled out, if there's already information in there the radio select is disabled. Sure people can make dummy accounts and view, but if they start posting crap from a male perspective it just makes it easier to locate them, since well, they've all gathered in one place for the slaughter. What exactly is your approach? Do nothing and call it progress? With a winning attitude like that no wonder...and I'll stop there and let you fill out that sentence with your imagination.


Well everyone has stayed within the bounds of rule number two. It clearly says men ARE allowed to post here. This is a thread about misogyny so men are inevitably going to get involved, and it's entirely appropriate for us to do so. If the subject was about something that doesn't involve men then there would be much less involvement by men. Again it is more beneficial to leave the forum open. This way a guy can ask about how best to deal with his sister or mother or any other women in their life that they may be having problems with. And like I said before the forum title is about the subject of thread NOT the people having the discussion. The only exception is banning minors from the adult forum, but even then there's no way to truly enforce it.



Lukeda420
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15 Sep 2015, 8:57 pm

One thing you could do is put a disclaimer on your posts saying you only wish to hear from female members. I think most people would respect that.



Aristophanes
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15 Sep 2015, 9:04 pm

Lukeda420 wrote:
Well everyone has stayed within the bounds of rule number two. It clearly says men ARE allowed to post here. This is a thread about misogyny so men are inevitably going to get involved, and it's entirely appropriate for us to do so. If the subject was about something that doesn't involve men then there would be much less involvement by men. Again it is more beneficial to leave the forum open. This way a guy can ask about how best to deal with his sister or mother or any other women in their life that they may be having problems with. And like I said before the forum title is about the subject of thread NOT the people having the discussion. The only exception is banning minors from the adult forum, but even then there's no way to truly enforce it.

Try out the last sentence:
This forum is intended to be more friendly to women, and to focus on issues unique to them.

From my male perspective there are posts in this thread that aren't exactly "more friendly to women", nor addressing the issues as pertaining to women. My personal philosophy on this issue is: if you wouldn't say it to your mom's face you probably shouldn't say it here.

Also if you asked those questions in general you'd get an answer.



Last edited by Aristophanes on 15 Sep 2015, 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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15 Sep 2015, 9:06 pm

Lukeda420 wrote:
One thing you could do is put a disclaimer on your posts saying you only wish to hear from female members. I think most people would respect that.
Well, let's see if your theory is valid.

Check out my latest sig line ...


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Lukeda420
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15 Sep 2015, 9:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
Lukeda420 wrote:
One thing you could do is put a disclaimer on your posts saying you only wish to hear from female members. I think most people would respect that.
Well, let's see if your theory is valid.

Check out my latest sig line ...


Well post something more realistic and a little less pretentious and it might work better.



Peacesells
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15 Sep 2015, 9:26 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
men who venture into this forum need to approach any reading or posting they do with an element of respect for the fact that they have just walked in on a conversation that should have little to do with them.

"Should" is the key word. Too bad in this case the discussion HAS everything to do with men.
What needs to disappear here is the contemp/prejudices for the other gender, with your solution you will just second it.
If these women want to discuss the problems THEY have with men in a polite and educate manner it is fine, but here they are asking for a mass expulsion of male members (which is against the rules). And you are seconding it because TWO (! !!) female members asked for it on the basis of some personal problems they have with men.



Agemaki
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16 Sep 2015, 3:03 am

I wish we could just have reasoned discussions without having to close the forum to men. The topic of gender relations always seems to encourage a number of people to behave less than civilly as this thread has shown.

If there are problems with gender-based hostility on WP I think they should be discussed. I think that would be ideal anyway. From my own perspective I've seen a fair amount of it. As I said earlier I've tried to engage with it and turn the discussion to something more productive but my efforts have been rather futile and dealing with that level of misogyny is simply too exhausting.

Seems like the best solution would just be to agree to maintain civil discourse but that seems very unlikely given the current proceedings.



Inle
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16 Sep 2015, 3:25 am

Aristophanes wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
I said it once like 10 pages back, and I'll say it again: Add gender back to the profiles, make a men's forum and a women's forum and make it so they're only readable by the appropriate gender. Problem solved.

And let's do it because... TWO women complained that they feel observed by men?


Here's rule number 2 of the women's forum:

2) Involvement of male members.
While Wrong Planet rules do not prohibit posting by men in the Women’s Discussion, men who venture into this forum need to approach any reading or posting they do with an element of respect for the fact that they have just walked in on a conversation that should have little to do with them. This forum is intended to be more friendly to women, and to focus on issues unique to them.

Be honest, how many of the males complaining here have even bothered to look at the rules for this forum?

Fnord wrote:
No need to make another account. Just go to your settings page, select whichever sex is appropriate for the subforum you want to post in, and switch the sex setting back when you are done posting there.
Some people should just get used to the idea that whatever they post on this website will eventually be read by someone they don't like.


It's as easy as a connection to the database to see if the column has been filled out, if there's already information in there the radio select is disabled. Sure people can make dummy accounts and view, but if they start posting crap from a male perspective it just makes it easier to locate them, since well, they've all gathered in one place for the slaughter. What exactly is your approach? Do nothing and call it progress? With a winning attitude like that no wonder...and I'll stop there and let you fill out that sentence with your imagination.


To be fair, this is a post about misogyny, a lot of misogynists are male, so - although I posted in this section because I wanted to hear from people who have EXPERIENCED misogyny - I can see why male members may feel that this topic has something to do with them. I also don't like the idea of total gender segregation, it widens the gender gap, and isolates people, especially trans/pangender folk.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Sep 2015, 4:59 am

YippySkippy wrote:
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See? I am being progressively tamed by your western influence, and soon after, I am gonna attack every guy who dares to talk to a lady.


Just the misogynists, please.


Every guy will be seen as misogynist until proven otherwise.

So yeah, there will be some innocent* causalities, but it's for the greater good - as long it's making you very comfortable.

*Almost every guy has either directly or indirectly contributed to patriarchy at least once in life, so there's no pure innocence in the menfolk - so don't feel so bad about the causalities.



Agemaki
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16 Sep 2015, 5:13 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
See? I am being progressively tamed by your western influence, and soon after, I am gonna attack every guy who dares to talk to a lady.


Just the misogynists, please.


Every guy will be seen as misogynist until proven otherwise.

So yeah, there will be some innocent* causalities, but it's for the greater good - as long it's making you very comfortable.

*Almost every guy has either directly or indirectly contributed to patriarchy at least once in life, so there's no pure innocence in the menfolk - so don't feel so bad about the causalities.


Everyone contributes to gendered relations. They would not persist otherwise. Gendered power dynamics are pervasive, often subtle, and more-or-less inescapable. And usually not helpful for either women or men.



The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Sep 2015, 5:27 am

Agemaki wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
See? I am being progressively tamed by your western influence, and soon after, I am gonna attack every guy who dares to talk to a lady.


Just the misogynists, please.


Every guy will be seen as misogynist until proven otherwise.

So yeah, there will be some innocent* causalities, but it's for the greater good - as long it's making you very comfortable.

*Almost every guy has either directly or indirectly contributed to patriarchy at least once in life, so there's no pure innocence in the menfolk - so don't feel so bad about the causalities.


Everyone contributes to gendered relations. They would not persist otherwise. Gendered power dynamics are pervasive, often subtle, and more-or-less inescapable. And usually not helpful for either women or men.


Which justifies my strategy.



Booyakasha
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16 Sep 2015, 5:44 am

This is also from the forum guideliness for the women section:

Quote:
3) Threads that say, "Women Only."

Members wishing to create threads for a restricted audience need to understand that it is not practical to prohibit members outside of the target group from reading or posting in the thread. Non-target members that enter the thread, however, are asked to treat the request - and the goals of the thread - with sensitivity and respect. Restricted threads should only be made if a poster feels there is a compelling reason to do so, and members tempted to post in violation of the request should only do so if they strongly feel they have positive, insightful information to contribute. Non-target posts that do not contribute valuable discussion may be removed at the discretion of a moderator.


viewtopic.php?t=141113

And also this:

spongy wrote:
Apparently there have been some doubts about this so Im going to try to clear things for newcomers that may have similar issues.

This section is accessible to both males and females.

Its meant to be a place where females can feel free to discuss any issue they wish (as long as they are respecting the opposite gender which is a requirement on this site´s rules) and any male can give their input as long as they are trying to be helpfull/supportive.


Also this:

spongy wrote:
Thats the thing. Guys dont have their own forum.

So making a forum only accessible to a certain gender and leaving the other gender out would make wp stand out in a bad way because its clear discrimination against males.



viewtopic.php?t=181819

So, guys do have the right to post here, according to the forum rules, even in the women section. And while common decency and respect is asked of them if they do decide to post there, it's also asked of everyone in every part of the forum. I doubt many WP male members would venture here anyway, if this thread wasn't specifically about them.



Agemaki
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16 Sep 2015, 7:14 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Agemaki wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
See? I am being progressively tamed by your western influence, and soon after, I am gonna attack every guy who dares to talk to a lady.


Just the misogynists, please.


Every guy will be seen as misogynist until proven otherwise.

So yeah, there will be some innocent* causalities, but it's for the greater good - as long it's making you very comfortable.

*Almost every guy has either directly or indirectly contributed to patriarchy at least once in life, so there's no pure innocence in the menfolk - so don't feel so bad about the causalities.


Everyone contributes to gendered relations. They would not persist otherwise. Gendered power dynamics are pervasive, often subtle, and more-or-less inescapable. And usually not helpful for either women or men.


Which justifies my strategy.


I'm not so sure about that. Your strategy seems a little sarcastic and inflammatory. I don't think that's a good method in this context.



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16 Sep 2015, 7:18 am

Quote:
I'm not so sure about that. Your strategy seems a little sarcastic and inflammatory. I don't think that's a good method in this context.


Don't worry, he's being entirely sarcastic. He has no intention of standing up for women in any way.



The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Sep 2015, 7:27 am

Agemaki wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Agemaki wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
See? I am being progressively tamed by your western influence, and soon after, I am gonna attack every guy who dares to talk to a lady.


Just the misogynists, please.


Every guy will be seen as misogynist until proven otherwise.

So yeah, there will be some innocent* causalities, but it's for the greater good - as long it's making you very comfortable.

*Almost every guy has either directly or indirectly contributed to patriarchy at least once in life, so there's no pure innocence in the menfolk - so don't feel so bad about the causalities.


Everyone contributes to gendered relations. They would not persist otherwise. Gendered power dynamics are pervasive, often subtle, and more-or-less inescapable. And usually not helpful for either women or men.


Which justifies my strategy.


I'm not so sure about that. Your strategy seems a little sarcastic and inflammatory. I don't think that's a good method in this context.



I wanna start my own branch of FEMEN in the Middle East, and hire hot women to attack men. :lol:
(On a serious note, FEMEN is founded by a man - and its membership process is more like modeling agency or Playboy, where one man picks the members...so fishy. Which explains why *all* the activists who appear on their website and on the news are young and model-like looking, as if even belly fat doesn't exist in Ukraine.
http://jezebel.com/the-man-behind-femen ... 1251310779)