Feminism

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The conclusion I've reached, from reading this thread and participating in it, is that feminism is not the idea that men and women are equal (or that women are human beings), but rather, feminism is working towards that idea of equality (or that women are human beings) being realized in society. In some ways, the distinction between the two isn't important. But that distinction is why the label "feminism" fits. It doesn't make sense to call the idea that men and women are equal feminism. It doesn't make sense to call the idea that women and men are both fully human "feminism". The bias in the term doesn't fit the idea. It does make sense to use the word "feminism" for working towards implementing that idea in society, because of that starting point we have been coming from.

Well, that's how I see it.

If you just make up something absurd when you don't understand someone else's point, they yes: it remains a strawman.

It appears to me that the discussion of gender-based issues today has a lot of parallels to the discussion of race-based issues in the 50's and 60's.

There is, for instance, always someone who declares that the movement (for want of a better word) has "gone too far", as if certain demographic groups are entitled to opportunity, as long as it's not "too much" opportunity. These are the backlashers, and you can recognize them by the way they complain about "preferential treatment" given to women or racial minorities.

There is always someone who dreams up bizarre consequences of the "movement", and uses them as justification for quashing it. One reason the Equal Rights Amendment ran out of steam in the 70's is that the idea got around that men and women would have to use the same bathrooms. That issue has been brought up in this thread as well, and it's as silly now as it was then. Who has separate men and women's facilities in their home? Does anybody worry about it there?

There is always someone who interprets "equality under the law" as meaning that men and women, or black people and white people, may not have their own concerns or interests. Or that it means that all humans must be considered as sexless, raceless, homogenized zombies. You see the backlashers here too. They will complain about women's studies programs in universities on the grounds that there's no corresponding "men's studies".

Myself, I simply look forward to a day when the rhetoric has died down, the backlash has died down, and people are accepted for what they are ... nothing more, nothing less. Although, having said that, I do agree with the previous poster who commented that the main issue is equality under the law, and we shouldn't worry too much about attitudes. Leave the attitude adjustment for later generations, if necessary.

What we need here and now is a legal system that does not permit half the population to be denied the rights and opportunities of the other half.

Yes, I guess they wouldn't make pink hard hats if no-one would buy them. But the port-o-potty thing is stupid.

It's funny that the union rep tried to talk me out of it, because at that time the same union was doing a lot of advertising aimed at women... at that time there was a big labour shortage. Why specially reach out to females if you don't really want to hire them?

By the way, the reason I choose not to further explain myself to you, Pandd, is that I've learned not to bother having conversations with people who, from what I can see, aren't going to try to listen and understand. Such discussions are a waste of my time. The one recent reply was really for the benefit of others reading.

It's not that I can't further explain my perspective. It's that it's not worth my time.

Definitely not a feminist. If it would've been the 50's, I might have been, but now, I don't see a reason why I would be.

I'm not a feminist. I believe in the equal treatment and rights of all human beings. Females are not the only minority group. Actually, females are the majority in population, but are still considered a minority group. There are many other minority groups that are just as, if not more, segregated or unfairly treated than females. Many people are paid less, treated badly or excluded based purely on their looks, their lifestyles, their beliefs. Poor people, little people, fat people, deformed people, people with any array of diseases or disabilities. And actually, within many minority groups, it's actually the men that are looked down upon moreso than the women within that same group. Homeless and poor people for example...the men in these groups are generally shown less sympathy and receive less help than their female counterparts, and more is expected from them. There are also plenty of men from different minority groups that make well below the average female income. And for these reasons, i'm not a feminist, but believe in equal rights of all human beings.

I'm also a feminist.