mansplaining

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tarantella64
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02 Apr 2014, 1:20 pm

GivePeaceAChance wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

GivePeaceAChance wrote:

This sort of stuff happening to me as well as having my ideas stolen by men in an office setting (I was a systems software developer) are why I became feminist. I realized we were never going to get fair treatment if we did not FIGHT for it. Decades later it still happens and now they are actually organizing their oppressive nature as a group and teaching each other how to do this. It bugs me but the fight must go on until we get treated as actual human beings.

And yet this is precisely why I'm off work this week having a nervous breakdown and about to lose half my job. Me, a single mom with a daughter. Fighting Feminists(tm) saw evidence of sexism in my work -- visible only to them, apparently, out in the feminist infrared, because even people at the women's center couldn't figure out the problem -- and started an assault on my character, tried to get my boss to take action against me, and generally turned the environment toxic enough that I can no longer do my work. They never actually came to talk to me, mind. Just decided I was a tool of the patriarchy. It's too bad the patriarchy doesn't pay better; I'll have to keep digging up freelance jobs andpulling all-nighters so I can support my daughter now.

please don't judge everyone in a movement that goes back to the 18th century by the actions of one tiny set of people.

Hey, I've been fightin' and organizing and blahdeblah for ages. I have actually moved legislation and had harmful legislation blocked, just me working myself to death in my robe from my home office. Just got a survey from whatever outfit does the National College Women Leader's conference, because apparently I went to the very first one, and it's turned into a bfd since then. Way back then, it seems, I said I'd be willing to be surveyed 20 years down the line, so up they popped.

However. The current mode of discourse and fighting appears to me completely hair-trigger and batshit, and in the last half-year I've seen lots of perfectly nice, helpful, visible people attacked savagely and their livelihoods come under fire because they weren't sufficiently pure. I want nothing whatsoever to do with this sort of behavior, and it's made me reconsider whether I'm willing to call myself a feminist. I had a boyfriend once who'd been subjected to this strain of feminism as a grad student at Princeton, and I'm beginning to see the point he was making when he said the brand's skunked.

smudge
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02 Apr 2014, 1:31 pm

starvingartist wrote:

smudge wrote:

Yes, I've heard of that term. IMO, I think it's not necessary to see men as all potential rapists. Of course, I *completely* understand why you do because you've been through it. I think what's necessary is to keep safe, and back the Hell away from those men who don't take no for an answer, or show signs of being impatient to the point of anger with you.

it's not really about what is necessary or unnecessary. it's just what happens: when a strange man approaches me, i immediately go into threat-assessment mode. in fact, i'm usually permanently in that mode if i am outside of my apartment. even sometimes when i'm inside it can happen (ie. if i hear a strange noise).

do you know anyone with police/military training? if you do, ask them about hypervigilance. in their case it is a skill that is developed through training. in my case, it's a survival skill that developed as a result of trauma, from the desire to be aware of my surroundings so i can feel safe. it's not something i chose--it's what is necessary for me to be able to be out in public. i can no longer be unaware of potential dangers, i don't have that luxury anymore--and every single stranger is a potential danger to me until they display overt behaviour that is non-threatening and builds trust (like respecting my clearly established boundaries). i don't CHOOSE to see every strange man as a potential rapist--they actually are potentially a rapist until i see evidence to the contrary. and until there are no more rapists roaming the world, that's how it's going to stay, and i won't apologise to anyone for that. i have nothing to apologise for; the rapists do.

I'm sorry - I didn't mean to appear like I said that you chose to do it. When I said I understood why you did it, it was because I assumed you did it automatically as you said, because of trauma. I completely agree that you have absolutely nothing to apologise for.

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starvingartist
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02 Apr 2014, 1:40 pm

smudge wrote:

starvingartist wrote:

smudge wrote:

no need to be sorry--i reread what you wrote after i posted that and i realised i focused on the wrong bit (the first bit) of what you said and didn't pay enough attention to what came after it. i was just a little sensitive when i posted because of being harassed in another thread on a similar topic.

GivePeaceAChance
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02 Apr 2014, 2:37 pm

tarantella64 wrote:

GivePeaceAChance wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

GivePeaceAChance wrote:

please don't judge everyone in a movement that goes back to the 18th century by the actions of one tiny set of people.

I refuse to be deterred from a title I have had for decades just because some snot nosed children have come along and they are messing up.

also some of the biggest opponents to me being a feminist are MRA's and members if the Mens Rights Movement, I have left a lot of what I thought were safe spaces due to attacks from them - just more evidence that we NEED to keep up the fight

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MindBlind
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04 Apr 2014, 5:19 pm

Well, I'm really just beginning my career so I don't really know too much about it. However, thus far, I have very rarely, if ever, experienced 'mansplaining' in the work place or anything like that. Thus far, I have never encountered any sexism in the creative industry (but time will tell). As for other jobs, well yes - it does exist, though often from customers. My colleagues and bosses were very respectful towards me and I was always a valued employee. But yeah - some customers can go rot in hell.

Also, somebody made a point about schrodingers rapist and I had to cringe. Okay, I appreciate that your experiences are different than mine and you have a different level of risk allowance to me. but some of the stuff people are saying here about hypervigilance being the norm and that's it's just "something you do" seems ludicrous to me. Personally, I think the whole shroedinger's rapist thing is a terrible notion because it assumes a lot about female behavior and priorities and it's basically a form of guilt by association in that males have to assume responsibility for the comfort of all women around them based on the assumption that the woman assumes they are some sort of rapist by default. It also removes agency from the woman because, hello, I'm responsible for my own wellbeing and comfort. If I don't like someone, I will tell them. The other person isn't psychic (or at least I should hope not). The original article basically says that guys should just know not to "creep her out" or whatever. In my experience, that sort of s**t just makes men into these snivelling, pitiful losers who fret over the tiniest faux pas and I am not interested in associating with a person like that.

AspergianMutantt
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04 Apr 2014, 6:12 pm

So ladies, please describe me, as compared with how you feel about other men, simple generalizations, paint me as black as you like.

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Yuzu
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04 Apr 2014, 6:37 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:

So ladies, please describe me, as compared with how you feel about other men, simple generalizations, paint me as black as you like.

This is not a place for you to hog attention. Go somewhere else.

AspergianMutantt
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04 Apr 2014, 8:15 pm

Yuzu wrote:

AspergianMutantt wrote:

So ladies, please describe me, as compared with how you feel about other men, simple generalizations, paint me as black as you like.

This is not a place for you to hog attention. Go somewhere else.

It's not about attention, its about how we feel about each other. many of us are stuck in our own ruts, and we need those other perspectives to grow by. you my friend, I feel a great hurt, at first i couldnt see it because of you trying to hide behind your own ego. but I as well been watching your posts.

Watch your tung unless you want to step upon it. Your not nearly as old as I, nor any wiser, age has its privileges. swallow your own fears and ego and pride, and learn to listen to others hearts other then the pains of your own. Your so angry its blinding you. As socially inept as I am if I can see it I am sure others can too. Learn to stop and listen, you cant win unless you learn to listen past your own pain.

Where here to share. in hopes for a better tomorrow., not for only each other, but our selves.
sometimes we don't like what we hear, but it helps us grow. and thats all that matters.

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Yuzu
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04 Apr 2014, 8:54 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:

Yuzu wrote:

AspergianMutantt wrote:

So ladies, please describe me, as compared with how you feel about other men, simple generalizations, paint me as black as you like.

This is not a place for you to hog attention. Go somewhere else.

It's not about attention, its about how we feel about each other. many of us are stuck in our own ruts, and we need those other perspectives to grow by.

Super. But I don't get how asking women to describe you here in the women's discussion section is supposed to help them.
And should they know about you well enough to do that? It's a bit self-conceited of you to think that, don't you think? What makes you so special?

AspergianMutantt
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04 Apr 2014, 8:59 pm

Yuzu wrote:

AspergianMutantt wrote:

Yuzu wrote:

AspergianMutantt wrote:

So ladies, please describe me, as compared with how you feel about other men, simple generalizations, paint me as black as you like.

This is not a place for you to hog attention. Go somewhere else.

It's not about attention, its about how we feel about each other. many of us are stuck in our own ruts, and we need those other perspectives to grow by.

Your all confused, be patient, in order to learn life is about patience, about listening.,
which is even hard for me to do. we can not address their own pains unless we can understand them, and them us.
it can not be one or the other, when we are one race. Human

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Yuzu
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04 Apr 2014, 9:12 pm

AspergianMutantt wrote:

???

Ohhh I get it. You're demonstrating what "mansplaining" is right here, aren't you? Good one.

Who_Am_I
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05 Apr 2014, 3:44 am

AspergianMutantt wrote:

So ladies, please describe me, as compared with how you feel about other men, simple generalizations, paint me as black as you like.

Ok, you asked for it: you are irrelevant. You have no impact on my life.
Compared to other men, you may be better, worse or neutral.

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05 Apr 2014, 9:04 am

Yuzu wrote:

AspergianMutantt wrote:

???

Ohhh I get it. You're demonstrating what "mansplaining" is right here, aren't you? Good one.

lol, this + 1

I am pretty sure he wouldn't want to know what I think.

beneficii
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05 Apr 2014, 11:02 am

This is an interesting read:

Quote:

"Narcissistic men hold overtly hostile, adversarial ideas about women," Keiller said.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/ ... key=118736

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