Have you felt alienated/discounted by the autistic men here?

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wilburforce
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28 Dec 2015, 6:55 pm

Dox47 wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

I'm not interested in speaking with you, thanks.

And you're doing a fantastic job of ignoring me. Who says I'm even talking to you? Perhaps I'm simply using quotes of you to prove a greater point, which you're very helpfully assisting me in.

I'm not interested in speaking with you, thanks.

Fnord
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28 Dec 2015, 7:24 pm

BirdInFlight wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Those women who don't see an insult in an every post, who don't derail someone else's thread with their own angsty stories, and who don't argue for the sake of arguing seem to get along with others just fine. Autistic men on this website tend to post what we think and feel - not always what others want us to post. Unfortunately, this can get us in trouble with the mods, so most of us try to walk that fine line between honesty and political correctness. "Political Correctness" = "Telling Pleasant Lies"

Yeah and you can say all of that first paragraph about the MEN here. But since it doesn't refer to BOTH genders, that paragraph is a bunch of sexism just by starting saying "Those WOMEN who..."

Please re-read the title of this thread. It was started as a critique of male behavior. What I posted was a counter-critique of the behaviors of only some women - the kind that are easily insulted, the kind that derail threads with their own personal issues, and the kind that are simply contentious. Do you know anyone like that? Maybe if those kinds of women would examine their own behaviors, they might gain a better understanding of why men might react in ways that make those women feel "alienated/discounted".

BirdInFlight wrote:

And what about Those Men Who ... goad, are passive aggressive, belittle and insult people here BUT SNEAKILY, and make sure they act the innocent when called out on it. Just like you're about to do.

Is this a personal attack against me? If so, I'll leave it for the mods to sort out.

cberg
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28 Dec 2015, 8:09 pm

wilburforce wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

I'm not interested in speaking with you, thanks.

And you're doing a fantastic job of ignoring me. Who says I'm even talking to you? Perhaps I'm simply using quotes of you to prove a greater point, which you're very helpfully assisting me in.

I'm not interested in speaking with you, thanks.

Way to be!

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slw1990
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28 Dec 2015, 10:49 pm

wilburforce wrote:

slw1990 wrote:

I haven't been invalidated by anyone personally. It just seems like I always see posts in Love and Dating that say things like, "if you're a girl you will get approached by guys no matter how shy/awkward you are." It does feel a invalidating, frustrating and depressing because this isn't true at all, at least in my experience. Maybe I'm just not desirable like other autistic women are.

I know exactly what you mean, and feeling invalidated like that is awful. I already experience this kind of invalidation and lack of understanding from NT people all the time, I was hoping to not have to deal with the same s**t here. It's so disheartening.

Yeah. When I'm always reading posts talking about how autistic women can easily get into relationships it makes me feel even more undesirable. :cry:

Amity
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29 Dec 2015, 6:56 am

wilburforce wrote:

Amity wrote:

wilburforce wrote:

Amity wrote:

Its much better than it was even a year ago wilburforce

, most of the Autistic men here are just regular. I know my experience of the world is real, and I try to understand the few guys here that bemoan their existence, cuz Ive been there, or somewhere similar.

Often with the more outspoken posters it seems quite like a one sided understanding though, and at that point I cant relate to that person at all, beyond knowing that I am dealing with an emotionally charged and not a rational person.

I actually feel like there have been users actively trying to make me feel unwelcome here, not just because I'm female but because I sometimes talk about sexism and feminism and that seems to be a big no-no here with many guys. I just want a place to go where I can talk about my social difficulties without some guy jumping in every five minutes to tell me my feelings don't matter because I'm a girl and that means all I have to do is step outside and any man I see would gladly f**k me which apparently would solve all my problems or something, or that surely I don't HAVE any real social difficulties becuase only guys are treated badly for being awkward and when women are awkward it's cute and makes everyone act nice to them. :roll:

It's so tiresome.

Something I wanted to add, about feminism, extremists (who seem emotionally charged and not rational) are 'shouting the loudest' and catching the most attention. When another regular woman outwardly resembles these fundie-types through her words, I believe it taps into a mass hysteria and keep in mind that many people with ASD (men and women) will have a heightened sense of fight or flight.
I wonder what is more important to you, a movement you believe in or the methodology you choose to achieve the movements goals.

What matter to me is feeling like I have a place I can go to talk about things in my life that effect me, including sexism, without being told my experiences are not real. That's all I want.

I can understand that, when I came to WP first I really needed relationship advice and was relieved to see a section for relationships, but as I read the posts there, all I seen was a forum that a person would indeed only touch with long handled tongs. That was very disheartening.

I wouldn't post about a topic that has a personal/emotional value in the L&D section, but the in-depth adult discussion section, although slow moving, is the forum I would recommend for a serious, but civil discussion.

I have never felt alienated/discounted by the autistic men in that section.

BeaArthur
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29 Dec 2015, 3:16 pm

Fnord has often seemed to me to be too dark and cynical, but I've never taken that personally, as I'm sure it was never intended.

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BeaArthur
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29 Dec 2015, 3:18 pm

Dox 47, I wish you would lay off wilburforce, in fact I find your behavior somewhat threatening too and I do not feel threatened easily.

She should only have to tell you ONCE she doesn't want to converse with you. Any more times than that, and I can see why she feels invalidated.

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BeaArthur
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29 Dec 2015, 3:22 pm

You know, we have that "Members Only" board where you can't read the posts unless you have joined WP. I wonder why we couldn't have a similar "Women's Section" and "Men's Section" where only members who have identified with the corresponding gender can read?

I apologize if this offends any trans sensibilities.

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Malaise
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29 Dec 2015, 3:23 pm

There's a subset of men (not just autistic men) who are so caught up in self-pity that they're dedicated to seeing themselves as pretty much the biggest victim in the world, a world where no one else has real problems deserving of help, consideration, and respect. Just them.

Don't let it discourage you, many are better than that.

btbnnyr
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29 Dec 2015, 3:41 pm

I haven't felt alienated or discounted by autistic males.
I have no problem with autistic males as a group.
In person, autistic males did not alienate or discount me either.

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wilburforce
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29 Dec 2015, 4:10 pm

Amity wrote:

I will have to bookmark that forum and try to ignore L&D from now on, I think. It's just too toxic of an environment there.

Amity
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29 Dec 2015, 4:35 pm

wilburforce wrote:

Amity wrote:

I will have to bookmark that forum and try to ignore L&D from now on, I think. It's just too toxic of an environment there.

L&D is where the younger guys hang out, and although many of them are really quite sensible, there are a few that only ever refer to women in a sexual way, which indicates to me that they might lack real life romantic/meaningful relationship experiences.

Unfortunately these few are quite noticeable, much like negative headlines in the news. I believe they are indirectly creating a climate of segregation in the 'relationship' forum, which will just keep that section in a negative cycle of fear and ignorance, much the same as real life segregation (eg race, ethnicity, gender...).

Last edited by Amity on 29 Dec 2015, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dox47
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29 Dec 2015, 4:42 pm

BeaArthur wrote:

I see you're new to the internet. See, the way you tell someone on the internet that you're uninterested in talking to them is to not respond to what they say, not to ostentatiously proclaim how you're not talking to them in multiple threads, that's a different message entirely. Regardless, she said it herself that I'm welcome to continue to post, she just won't read or reply, which, again, raises the question of the necessity of calling attention to it.

Also, 'threatened', seriously? The most "threatening" thing I've said to starvi-, I mean wilburforce, is that perhaps the reception she gets has less to do with her gender and more to do with her approach, a common misconception in these parts. Perhaps that word doesn't mean what you think it does?

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androbot01
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29 Dec 2015, 4:55 pm

Dox47 wrote:

...The most "threatening" thing I've said to starvi-, I mean wilburforce, is that perhaps the reception she gets has less to do with her gender and more to do with her approach, a common misconception in these parts. Perhaps that word doesn't mean what you think it does?

Well, I get what you're saying Dox. I don't think wilburforce has crossed any lines. Her passion does not preclude the existence of an issue.
I remember the gender wars and the unwanted kiss. Things have calmed down a lot since then. Maybe both sides are getting closer to the center.
It is just very vexing to be told on here, a support site, that I don't have any problems because I'm female. If anything women on the spectrum are overlooked more than men.

Dox47
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29 Dec 2015, 5:31 pm

androbot01 wrote:

Well, I get what you're saying Dox. I don't think wilburforce has crossed any lines. Her passion does not preclude the existence of an issue.

I never said it did, I just said that people respond poorly to the way she's conducting herself generally, regardless of gender. Like I said earlier, it's easy enough to go back and look at the response that male strident feminist/SJ types have gotten here and see that it's the arguments and how they're being presented that people are reacting to, not the gender of the person making them.

androbot01 wrote:

I remember the gender wars and the unwanted kiss. Things have calmed down a lot since then. Maybe both sides are getting closer to the center.

More like the extremes got banned; remember that all that drama ended instantly when the two primary instigators were banned.

androbot01 wrote:

It is just very vexing to be told on here, a support site, that I don't have any problems because I'm female. If anything women on the spectrum are overlooked more than men.

Who is saying that though? The handful of bitter guys in L&D?

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androbot01
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30 Dec 2015, 5:08 am

Dox47 wrote:

... remember that all that drama ended instantly when the two primary instigators
were banned.

The arguing was subdued, but the issues still remain.

Quote:

androbot01 wrote:

It is just very vexing to be told on here, a support site, that I don't have any problems because I'm female. If anything women on the spectrum are overlooked more than men.

Who is saying that though? The handful of bitter guys in L&D?

It's happened enough times for me to be aware of the it. And yes it has been in the notorious L&D; but why should the men posting on that sub-forum get a pass for sexism? Women have relationship issues too, but are often unwelcome there.

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