A question of gender: Would you rather be male or female?

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So, coming up on being live for nearly a day, here is a current snapshot of the poll results. Assuming honest voting in this unscientific poll with a small sample set, and remaining cognizant of the fact that this is generally not a "neurotypical" community:

- Among female voters, well over half are not content with their gender.

- Among female voters who are not content with their gender, the number who would rather be male beats the number who would prefer to be genderless by nearly 2:1.

- Among male voters, there seems to be a strong satisfaction with being male, which is in sharp contrast with the female perspective.

- Among the relatively small minority of male voters who are not content with their gender, preferring to be female vs. preferring to be genderless are currently neck-and-neck.

- There's a respectably even distribution of male and female voters (noting of course that I posted this thread in the Women's Discussion forum).

Thank you for voting, and for sharing your viewpoints. Disappointingly, of the current 31 responses, 11 of those contribute nothing useful to the discussion, but the remaining 20 responses offer some insightful observations from both sides of the gender fence. Please, continue!

Good fortune,

- Icarus is a Zogby troll...

Ryan, I voted that I was content to be female. You missed my point; that wasn't what I was trying to prove.

Oh, I completely concur with this; I can try to imagine, but I will not presume that I can do so with any degree of accuracy. I have a female co-worker/friend who I've spent many an hour discussing gender issues with. She assures me quite firmly that females face many challenges and hardships that males do not, and thus males tend to be completely oblivious to such things; thus trying to imagine is no substitute for actual experience. My friend is extremely smart, and I pay great heed to what she says, but I've wondered what percentage of these "additional pressures" from being female are imagined (allowing for 0%). If nothing else, she certainly caused me to re-consider some things.


Just don't show up; an elegant solution. I spent far too much time pondering why I was being bullied, and not enough time coming up with a solution. But, yes, I received a whole truckload of "he's the weird, quiet one" bullying myself; I was pelted with large rocks on numerous occasions, randomly hit or kicked from behind in the halls, pushed down stairs, thrown out of moving vehicles, thrown into a river twice (in full clothes - I nearly drown both times), set on fire once, and even had my nose broken. All over nothing.


This is an interesting point. Johnny Cash even wrote a song about this phenomena.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=M89c3hWx3RQ[/youtube]Can anyone out there provide a counter-example from the female side? I cannot think of any.




These are in interesting contrast. I do think that males are more subject to physical violence from their peers growing up than females are. That is not to say that I believe females never experience physical violence from the peers growing up, as Rjaye notes.

But backing off to a more general notion of bullying as applied to both genders, while things appear to me to be more physical for males in this realm, I'm unconvinced that females experience less bullying; my impression is that quite a bit of bullying still goes on, but it tends to take different forms, more of a "Cold War psychological" bullying than an "I'm gonna kick your ass" type bullying. I'm unconvinced that I would have been less bullied had I been female. Comments?


Well put; I could have written this myself.

Good fortune,

- Icarus collates and moderates...

Thank you for listing this phenomenon as a positive; I work in a CS field, and I have friends very much like you; as a male, I certainly appreciate females like you. I think you do an excellent job describing this as a benefit, and why a female "just one of the guys" can be a more valuable and versatile companion than a male "just one of the guys".

I'm not sure if it falls exclusively in this realm, but I've heard this sort of thing voiced often from AS females; I've noted that in general AS females tend to relate better to males than females, are able to easily pull off the "just one of the guys" routine while having trouble with the "just one of the girls" routine. Do you happen to have the corresponding trouble connecting with females? If so, would you count that as a negative?



Would either of you care to elaborate on the why behind this? What you say does not shock me, D1nk0, but as yours is a particularly rare position, I'm very interested in your "why"?


I agree that both sexes come with drawbacks; but I balance this belief with the complementary notion that both sexes also come with benefits. Thus my own personal preference is the state of nature as it is, two complementary genders, yin and yang. Are you saying that the drawbacks of gender overshadow the benefits? Or that the benefits are an illusion? (Or something else - not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to explore the subject).

Personally, I see the tension between sexes as a source of great energy, passion, art, etc., that I expect would either be lessoned or absent in a genderless arrangement; thus I view the presence of genders as important. But might a genderless arrangement be more peaceful and lucid? It is interesting to consider.

"All movement in the universe is caused by movement between positive and negative furies." - Egg Shen

Good fortune,

- Icarus is cursed because he is out of balance...

Though my opinion is highly biased due to the fact that I was never male and can't know what it's like to be male, I have to say being female sucks.

1. We have periods. Every month. If you don't have a period every month, that's a bad thing; if you do, that sucks.
2. Boobies and bras. Uhguhguhguhguhg. Having sensitivity issues + bras = SUCK.

Men do not have periods (... I hope) and do not wear bras (unless they're messed up). Thus, men win.

Icarus_Falling,

I ALMOST mentioned that song earlier.

I would rather be male or genderless. A) I hate boobs... They feel funny hanging off me like this, and B) I hate my hips. If I were a guy, according to how my family is, I would have no hips but no... I have huge honking hips. Like... a plow truck... They are huge (42 inches around) C) I hate being pressured into wearing makeup and being dainty. I am as Dainty as a lumberjack.... And not a Monty Python lumberjack. Grr.

Ryan, you have your head in the cloud, by your own admission. I just didn’t realize how bad it was. And I’d never realized just how horribly ostentatious and insensitive you are. It’s embarrassing to watch...

I would rather me male. I'm not about to do anything about it, mind, but if it could all magically change overnight I'd be very happy for it to. I would still be attracted to men, so I'd be gay. Fine.

Female maintainance on a basic level is ok - it annoys me to have to shave my legs, but as a guy I'd have to shave my face anyway, I don't mind spending ten minutes putting some make up on. The trouble is that I don't do any more than that, and whilst it's acceptable when you're a teenage thing I feel too guilty to go to bed with anyone now, because of the stuff I don't do... I don't shave my p****, own fancy underwear, do pilates or yoga or any fitness stuff that makes you ultra slim yet toned rather than fit which is not the look men want, I consistantly forget to apply moisturiser to my hands and never do anything to my nails... I have hairs on my toes, and quite a lot on my arms too. Gross. Disgusting. I'm tall, and have odd posture and weird mannerisms. I'm not elegant or feminine in any way. Even the guys on WP say they want feminity in a woman. I've stopped bothering to look when I go out these days.

I mean, I love glamour and high heels. But I think they look best on the New York Dolls.



If I was a guy, I could still wear fancy clothes and make up, especially if I got to keep my tall, slim figure, but I'd be free to do in more of a trashy way. That would be The Dream.

sarahstilettos,

I don't know what you look like, but a LOT of women exaggerate, etc... the hair part may not be an issue. As far as femininity, there are a lot of different interpretations. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to be frilly, wear high heels, makeup, etc...

I couldnt disagree more with you about that sarahstilettos. Men look absolutely ridiculous in high heel shoes! Most of the time they can barely walk well in them. But you shouldnt feel bad about being a tall woman; there are a lot of men who find height to be attractive in women too. I think men Can look good with certain kinds of makeup, but definitely NOT Lipstick.

I have to disgree with the last paragraph. Personally I am getting REALLY TIRED of this "battle of the sexes". But whenever I see a pretty girls strutting down the street in sexy clothes(miniskirt, heels, makeup, etc.) , I percieve HER as being the one who really has all the power and not me. Women are the ones who are truly in control when it comes to sex and the mating game-I say this now that western women have their freedom(as do western men)and we can see what REALLY happens when society doesnt try to interfere with human sexual selection and courtship.

I think it's wrong for someone of either sex to say, 'oh the other sex is in control' because how do we know? I haven't experienced what you have - you haven't experienced a whole catologue of horror stories I could tell you - that I could only tell you if we were in the adult forum. I would suggest that power shifts between and it's more about the individuals in question and their relative assertiveness.

There was a time when I used to go out in miniskirts and heels and I could see people looking and yes I did feel powerful. Then I was raped, and overnight I saw how superficial the power I had was... although I guess I do still have a power of sorts over certain men, it's no different to the power anyone I'm attracted to has over me, and it feels less potent for the fact that it'll dissappear as soon as I change my clothes.

I am female and although I wouldn't want to change that, I feel genderless quite often. I don't really fit in with any gender.

Is a woman in control when she is sexually harassed, and raped?

And, no. We don't yet have your freedom. Probably never will.

Admit it: You are just bitter about your own ineptitude with women.

Aridarr: I have to say-you sound like you are VERY unhappy with being female. And the results of this survey make me wonder.....do most NT women feel the same way? Increasingly when I ask non-aspie women about this issue they increasingly tell me that they are in fact content with their gender DESPITE the hardships that go along with it.Seems like fewer and fewer (young)women in america today go around screaming about how it sucks to be female; which to me suggests that unlike the 60s and 70s american women today are a lot less unhappy. Deep down, I am neither happy nor unhappy about being male-its just what I am. Though I certainly havent liked the way that many Women have treated me. But funny enough I find that the older I get, the less hostility I receive from them-and I honestly dont know why that is. Also, being sexually harassed and sexually admired are NOT the same thing. Women definitely want to be wanted and to be noticed(i.e.: many of the LIKE getting sexual admiration from men), but that isnt the same thing as being harassed and raped. I mean rape is a physical attack and NO ONE wants that or feels in control. But Aridarr-do you think women who dress provocatively are in some way increasing their chances of being raped?