the treatment of women on wrongplanet

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OliveOilMom, have you considered the possibility that more women aren?t speaking up because the ones who would be prone to doing so stay away from the site completely?

I finally joined WP a few days ago specifically because I saw that some of the women and men here are starting to stand up against the misogyny on the site.

I visited WP several years ago when I figured out that I belong on the spectrum. At that time, the site was overrun with misogynists and Asperger supremacists. Vile. No, thank you. Not my community.

Over the years, I came back every once in a while. Yuck. No, thank you. Not my community.

In April, I visited again since I had been posting some Autism awareness info on FB. The first thread I saw (which has, thankfully, been deleted) made me recoil at the blatant hatred of all women. A couple of women were debating back, but the response to them was disgusting. No, thank you. Not worth my time to join a site where I?m going to get abused every time I post anything. Still not my community.

I came back a few days ago since I was curious about the response to the UCSB killings. Boy, howdy. But finally, I saw both men and women directly addressing the problem. It saddens me that it took multiple dead bodies for the discussion to be taken seriously, and that there are women here who think the misogyny should be ignored. That?s a bit like saying, ?Oh, the cat peed on the couch. Just flip the cushion over, and nobody will notice.? But even with the people who are bent on keeping things status quo, it looks like I might be able to come here and not feel like I?m the only one who think women should be able to enter the forum without being harassed.

There must be many more people who have turned away from the site for the sheer volume of misogyny, and the acceptance of it even among some women (it's pretty amazing that those women do this, actually). I think it's their way of saying, "I'm grown-up and can face it" but they don't realise it's completely beside the point, and how much they are kicking themselves in the foot enough for it to break off.

My other ideas on this thread haven't really been paid attention to, which is fine, but I wonder if simply sending Alex e-mails is enough. It would be interesting to know how many people have done this so far. I would encourage women and men, and NTs to participate.

Does starvingartist and cubedemon have a proposed policy yet?

Foodeater, you make a lot of good points also. I also compose posts only to discard them, because I know I will only be faced with a brick wall.

At the end of the day this site appears to represent people with AS, and it does a terrible job of it. I don't blame the moderators for this.

Also, people with AS as a whole group need a place to be able to open up on the internet without fear of judgement. Instead it alienates them even more, women in particular. It is so wrong and upsetting.

I wonder how many users here have been educated about sexism, and haven't posted more offensive posts.

The policy will probably take a couple of months to put together and kick around. I suspect though that what's agreed on by all but those who go off sputtering about any moderation of sexism will actually cover a large chunk of the bad stuff on here. then the question is what Alex wants to do with it, and then we go from there, and yes, there are places to go. Just keep on pushing in the meantime.

I have emailed Alex, and here is the text of my email.


"I've been a member of Wrong Planet for 6 years now, and I think this is the first time I have emailed you.

As I'm sure you are now aware, there is a great deal of concern about the way in which the moderation policy operates in relation to sexism and misogyny. It seems that the policy in such matters differs from that which applies to racism and homophobia. While I can understand the thought process behind letting stupidity and prejudice been seen as such, this isn't how it is working out in practice.

What is happening is that those who hold abhorrent views about women are able to post unhindered, thus reinforcing their beliefs as being acceptable - an echo chamber is created. This creates a hostile environment which some women (we can't say how many) find so off-putting that they don't post at all, or rarely. Some may decide to leave or not to become members in the first place.

For those of us who do want to start or join particular discussions, threads can be rapidly derailed and become really unpleasant to read, never mind post in. So reasonable, intelligent discussion and debate is stymied.

Wrong Planet is, rightly, known as the largest on-line community for autistic people and their allies, and the sexism and misogyny here is a massive blot on WP's reputation.

Unfortunately, whenever high-profile acts of violence are committed, there is often speculation about whether the shooter was autistic. Many people here are dismayed about this, and some have spoken about increased levels of bullying and abuse as a result. Elliot Rodger was unusual in having left behind a vivid video and written record of the misogyny which was his obsession and his motivation. I have been on other on-line fora where others have suggested that it wasn't primarily his attitude to women, but his (reported) autism which was to blame. If any of those people came to WP they would see post after post, thread after thread, in which women are maligned, dismissed, hated on, etc. This does no good for Wrong Planet as a community, no good for the membership, and no good for the public perception of autistic people.

Wrong Planet is otherwise a good place to be. Many, many people have benefitted and had their lives changed for the better as a result of this community which you started.

The current policy on sexism and misogyny though, drags Wrong Planet down, and I urge you to review and change the current policy so that moderators can make it plain - through interventions, warnings and if necessary, bannings - that sexism and misogyny are not accepted here."

Marcia, that is a very well-written e-mail. It's easy to understand, it points out the main concerns and it explains well how the misogyny on this site badly affects the site's reputation. You made a very good point about the shooting too, and how people could potentially link it to this place because of the lax rules for misogyny.

Agree completely.

That is fair enough. It's just that this thread went quiet for a while, and I wonder what is going on behind the scenes.

Behind this one? Thinking and talking to people and working too much, and getting a child ready for summer camp. I've got a lull this weekend and a vacation in a bit, though, so will have some time to put some things on paper.

I hope things work out sometimes I play games, act immature and act like a jerk towards women but I do care and realize not all women are mean and heartless but do care and love others, I know because my mom is a woman and if she was evil and heartless I wouldn't be born. I am a man I do get immature but I do have a heart and care about how women feel.

Hey guys, what SPECIFICALLY does Alex need to do?? I'm a friend of his, and I think he gets so many messages/emails he doesn't really read most of them at this point. I'll talk to him, but I need to know what to say.

For one thing, why can't the moderators do anything? Can't they delete posts, ban people, etc, the way they act towards other offensive topics?

Is the issue that there needs to be a site-wide rule explicitly stating that sexism will not be tolerated, and that moderators need to act to police this kind of thing?? That's what I would assume, but I want to ask first.

At the very least, I'll tell Alex about this thread and try to get him to read it

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewGZH8-s5Z8[/youtube]Relevant to the topic! If a guy tells you to make him a sandwitch tell him to make his own damn sandwitch! Warning in the end during the bloopers she cusses like a sailor, anyways *hugs* I dont want women to feel unwelcome to WP and leave.

Having him read this thread is a great idea.

Alex has instructed the moderators to "let them be stupid". This policy needs to change. Alex and your group is doing well and that is great. But Autism is a spectrum with co-morbids of depression and some suicidal thoughts. While Alex like myself had good parenting many if not most posters here come from families that were abusive. Another words they are "fragile" and come here for support and shelter from the real world. Moderators ought to be instructed to take that into consideration.

Yeah, that might be why, though personally I think it's immature and cowardly to ignore sexism. A truly strong woman fights it, in spite of the backlash and hassle, for the sake of other women.

Nonperson I agree with you in principle, but in practice it becomes so wearying fighting it on every.single.occasion and some women find it easier to deal with the personal attacks that go hand in hand with challenging sexism.

this. this very, very much. the personal attacks get rather tiresome, mostly because of their stupidity and lack of originality: dyke! ugly dyke! fat ugly dyke! fat ugly dyke who can't get a man! fat ugly man-hating dyke who can't get a man! etc etc sexists tend to not be particularly clever or witty (or accurate) with their "insights".

I know I'm late to the party here, but:

blockhead90 wrote: (pg. 3)

We understand that the world isn't perfect, but why must you actively make it worse?

I feel a bit uncomfortable after reading the first five pages of this thread. It seems that any time I've seen someone addressing sexism against women (not just on here, just the internet in general), it gets completely flipped around and men start ranting about double standards and sexism against their on sex.

Yes, men are also subject to sexism. But you can't just devalue what women say about their own struggles.

And what was that whole thing about sexism not being a big issue compared to racism?

People are prejudiced against minorities because of their skin color?something they were born with and can't change
People are prejudiced against women because of their sex?something they were born with and can't change (without surgery at least, but of course no one would or should get a sex change to avoid sexism)

Both seem pretty unjust to me.

But you know what's also unjust? Spitefully devaluing anyone's problems because you don't find them as important as your own or another's.