Mainstream porn sexualizes cruelty

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I agree. The same goes for prostitution. In countries where prostitution is legal there isn't any of the abuse and STIs that you get when it's all a dodgy behind-the-scenes business.

The research I've read says otherwise. Prostitution in countries where it's legal is just as dangerous and damaging, and making it legal just makes it easier to traffic people in. Just because it's legal doesn't mean people want to do it. Usually, they don't.

The Hollywood movie stuff is sexual harassment of talent, and its days are numbered. (You think performers like doing that stuff???)

And yes, media violence increases violence in real life, especially when it's divorced from reality (shown as harmless).

I think if you want to get laid, comedy will get you there faster.

With respect to violence by itself the computer games have to be at the top of the list, far above movie and TV violence.

This is a great point, but sadly for most, there is no other real option available. Women get into lower level sex work because of the lack of choices present (trafficking) and because of personal decisions (voluntary and local). That's how it's always been. Some do it and want to, even if they had no better option. I do agree that it isn't the first career choice of the majority, though. So, they most likely would chose something else, except for those rare cases who would still exist as sex workers and not give it up for anything else. The stigma shifts the attitude and makes one not like being part of it so much sometimes, even if it was chosen and enjoyed.

All I can say, is that the porn ethic is getting better, and that the community is growing more aware of abuse. Typically, it really is up to the actresses to stand up for themselves, and act how they want. How often has rape occurred in porn? I don't know. I've never watched a porn with an actress who was beaten or raped to be filmed for it, I promise. You can't protect people from all exploitation. Women will be exploited one way or another, with or without porn. So, I don't believe that porn has made the world unsafe, it exists because of an unsafe world, and NOW people are trying to fill the porn niche with better porn for everyone to watch. That's all I can say. It's a necessary evil, and people are stepping in to do the dirty work the best way that they can. So, the gap is closing, at least in America, and the industry is changing. Trust me, there are a great number of people doing it and not being harmed at all.

Some performers *do* like it. Contrary to your insistance, not everyone in porn is forced into it or goes into it from lacking any other options. There's a lot of people who genuinely *do* enjoy it.

And media violence only increases violence in people who're already disturbed. In the majority of people, it's seen as part of the story. Are you saying people can't tell fiction from fact?

I'm not an expert on media violence, so I can't give detailed arguments. I do know that very young children do have a hard time distinguishing fact from fiction. But it's not just that - it does desensitize everyone to some extent.

There's a good summary of the scientific research in James Potter, 2003, The 11 Myths of Media Violence, for those that care about objective facts.

And it's nice if some people do enjoy performing the sexualized content. But it's inethical to put it in the job description anyway, since that's coercion, and having anyone pressured into it against their will is bad. (Or is there a proportion of collateral damage that's acceptable as long as some people are having fun?) If people like it so much, they should do it for free and leave the rest of us out of it.

Very young children. And what are they doing watching porn in the first place? Or anything violent for that matter? If you don't seperate fact from fiction eventually, there's something wrong in your wiring and chances are you have a much bigger problem than just what you watch.



How is it coersing anyone to tell them exactly what the job is planned to entail? That's saying "this job will have x" and I'd want any role I auditioned for to be laid bare (pardon the pun) if it had anything out of the ordinary, be it sex or skydiving or riding a unicycle.

You know, people get hurt making action movies all the time. People get KILLED making action movies. But no one talks about them being "forced into it" or "collatoral damage".

And why should they do it for free just because they like it? I like voice acting but I sure want to get paid for it.

"Leave the rest of us out of it"? Absolutely no one is forcing you to watch ANYTHING.

It's coercion because people need jobs, and a job offer is hard to walk away from, especially if this is your one chance to get your foot in the door. Besides, sexualized content in a female role is hardly out of the ordinary. Two out of three of my first auditions, for example. They only warn you ahead of time if it involves full nudity or something equally extreme. You're expected to be ok with the rest if you're female, or want a male lead role. And if you say no, you can be blacklisted (it happens). So forget just choosing other roles. They want someone who's game for anything, no fuss, no boundaries. Otherwise you get bumped from the queue.

The film and television industry knows stunts can be dangerous, and has controls in place for this. They care a lot about physical safety. But they don't even seem to know what psychological safety is. A lot of people don't even seem to know what psychological safety is.

Factoid: some researchers were studying irregular hearth rhythms in horn players. To see if this affected causes of death, they checked with a musicians' union. Over the period 1959-1967, the average age of death for union members was 54, as opposed to 69 for the general population, with only a slightly elevated risk of death from heart failure (3%). So far as I know, no one has ever replicated this with any other artists' union (too scared?) It is not artistic to die young, but when it happens people shrug their shoulders instead of looking at potentially unsafe working conditions.

Very young children are exposed an astonishing amount of gratuitous fantasy violence watching Saturday morning cartoons. You never watched that stuff? And kids see porn when their parents have it around.

Oh, and where am I supposed to go to avoid sexualized content in the media? I can't even go to the grocery store, or down the street past newspaper containers, without seeing sexualized content.

And those are the only jobs people can get why? I think it takes a lot more to be in a porno than to, say, stock shelves.

Besides, there's other films, if you're an actress. It's not like even all pornos are made by the same company. Hell, most pornos are so low budget that you could make your own if you wanted.




And to the people who have no problem with or even enjoy working in porn, there's no issue.




That has what to do with anything at all that we're discussing?
And come on, it's *very* artistic to die young. Look at all the old novels.




FANTASY violence in CARTOONS. As in, not involving any on-screen people or anything but ink, paint, and those clear sheets they put the ink and paint on (or CGI).
I still DO watch that stuff. There's nothing "astonishing" about it. Hell, they get away with less now than I can ever remember in my life.
And kids don't watch every single thing their parents have lying around. I'm starting to wonder if you were ever a kid with all the assumptions you make about them.



And yet you still think that it's all cruel and forced? I don't think George Clooney would say so even as much as he's paraded around as the Sexiest Man Alive, or Angelina Jolie would say so as much as she pouts her lips at cameras.

If it bothers you so much, don't pay any attention to it. This is nonoffensive stuff, and frankly, this is the kind of talk that got that issue of Seventeen pulled off shelves because it had an article on vaginal health with photographs of what a healthy vagina should look like. We can't even talk about physical body parts these days without someone accusing it of "sexualizing" people, especially teenage girls, so how are those teenage girls going to know if their body parts are healthy?

Well, the first film I auditioned for, they asked me to try out for a part where I would have been groped. (You don't know what's in the job description until after you apply, then they send you the script). The second one was fine (though I didn't get the job). The third one would have involved my kissing someone and lying on top of him. At that point I gave up. The third one didn't involve cruelty, but it was still crushing to know that normal acting jobs for women involve having to put out for the camera. (Something that is not the case for men.)

For me, personally, regular jobs are out because of my disability. Many people who end up in the sex trade are excluded from regular jobs for a variety of reasons, including disability, lack of education, and/or racism.

Most of what I have to say is based on peer-reviewed scientific research. The rest is based on my personal experience. I used to believe the baloney that I was the only one who had a problem with the status quo. Turns out it isn't true. This is a public health issue. You know, like smoking.

As far as dying young being artistic, since when is it appropriate for any industry to kill off it's workers young? That's not where things are going these days.

Being groped isn't "putting out". Kissing and lying on top of someone isn't "putting out". Additionally, are you honestly claiming the men to not be a part of this? I'm assuming it would be a man doing the groping, and you then say that it's a man being kissed and laid on. The groper is exhibiting far more sexual behavior than the gropee, kissing tends to be an equal partnership, and if the laying on is sexual chances are it's consensual. Also none of this would qualify any of these works as either porn *or* abusive.




See here's your problem. You're equating willing people with people who're forced into things, and by using phrases like "sex trade" to describe everything you dislike, you belittle positive sexual experiences.




Standing next to some people having sex isn't going to make you die of cancer, you realize.

You also seem to cling to that "status quo" with virulency and claim that anyone who actually LIKES having sex on film is brainwashed or victimized. That's not status quo at all, that's taking charge of your sexuality. Just because it's being expressed openly for others to see doesn't mean that it's being expressed in a harmful manner.




I didn't say "to kill", I said "to die". There's a pretty big difference. Come on, if James Dean had lived to see 50 he wouldn't be nearly as remembered as he is today.

the thing about mainstream porn is that is just looks tacky - it's aesthetically really bad, in my view.

i do not knowif it sexualises cruelty....but it sure sexualises bad taste.

i know a a bit about that industry and the reasons people are involved are as many and as varied as the people themselves. some live in that world their entire lives. some pass through it and it becomes part of a rite of passage to a different kind of life. some love the porn world. some are downtrodden and f****d up and some others are abusive and persecutory. some who are involved simply adore sex. others hate it and just want a bit of money. Others have regular lives and regualr families and do it like a regular job.

i find most mainstream porn a bit like tabloid infomercial tacky tv.

give me decent erotica - done well - any day.

Insofar as the movies you find at adult video stores are concerned, there's little difference, catagorically, between porn and erotica. Granted, tone is entirely different, but as far as how it gets put on the shelf, chances are you'd find a steamy tale of sexual awakening next to the proverbial Back Door Sluts 9. It's all in how you look and know what to look for.

Besides, most entertainment is tasteless in some form or another. It doesn't have to have a hint of sex to be tasteless.

that has little to do with what i am saying as my post stipulated its own categorisation and distinction between mainstream porn and erotica. there is a ton of difference. whether they are stacked on the shelf together or not, is not what i was talking about.

and for me, most entertainment is not tasteless.

whether sex is involved has nothing to do with taste or tastlessness. it is more the "mainstream" presentation that i was referring to in relation to the distinction i was making. it is about the aesthetics of the presentation and the boring old shaved muff and tacky bedroom/hotel fittings, for want of a better example.

sex is great. great sex films are great. erotica is great. good erotica sites are really great. a long time ago in another life, i used to work in that industry. and the distinctions i make are made from that perspective. and excellent erotica is just plain excellent. it can have the same sexual content, but is presented and made in an entirely different manner and with a different sentiment. i'd still call it porn, although probably not mainstream.

and it is grossly ill-informed for people to assume that anyone who ends up working in the sex trade must be downtrodden or victimised in some way. Sure, that element is there. But there are plenty of amazingly well-informed and educated women and men working in the porn and sex industry and putting themselves through college or school or supporting a family.

Some of the most incredible feminists i ever met worked in the industry. some of the greatest tragedies, too.

Roberta Perkins here in australia is a sex-changed woman who was a prostitute and went on to become an amazing academic and historian and advocate for sex workers and their conditions. she has written incredible stuff on the sex industry and its history here in australia.

Erotica may not be mainstream in the porn industry, but it makes it into mainstream movies. Heck, isn't that the only reason people watched The Piano?