Why does society make it so much work to be a woman?!

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I have tried to, gently, by telling him how much I love the way he looks in jeans and a t-shirt, or Dockers and a Henley. But, basically, clothes do make the man, and The Man In The Button-Down is who he wants to be now. There's no point in hurting him by saying I don't like that person.

I guess the solution is to get myself some yuppie clothes and become The Professional's Wife.

Give him T shirts as gifts for his birthday and Christmas.

At school it was mostly the boys who bullied me for being ugly. Now they occasionally laugh about me, but I get more hate from women. To guys I'm invisible (no guy ever even had a crush on me); women pick apart my clothes, hair, skin, (lack of) make up, etc. Especially my mother and sister.

The world is more critical of a woman's appearance. Much of this is likely due to some subconscious evolutionary process.

However your mother and sister might do this partially out of concern for you. They possibly see you have potential to obtain a mate, that you are not using, and that will not last forever.

Clay5, do you ever wear makeup and nice clothes? How do people respond to you then? I'm actually unattractive. Even with the makeup, jewelry, and fancy clothes people still consider me unattractive or just okay. Your mom and sister may realize that you're beautiful and feel as if you're wasting your potential by not fixing yourself up. I admit it does kind of irk me when I see an attractive woman choose to dress poorly or mutilate her body. Why waste beauty? Being attractive means better treatment in this society. It's an asset that doesn't last forever.

I was bullied pretty evenly between guys and girls. I never saw a bias either way, they just approached it different. If a guy went after me it was usually along the lines of "you're ugly/fat and no guy would want to have sex with you" (to them they think this is the ultimate insult and try to control you with this - and sometimes it works bc girls are taught that they are sexual objects from a young age, in ways that aren't always as obvious), and girls mostly just like"your clothes are weird/ugly" or "you're weird/a freak." Actually now that I think about it I never was bullied by other girls for my actual appearance. Just how I chose to adorn myself.

It always seemed like the guys tried to make it more personal though lol. Like they wanted you to realize since they think you're unattractive no one will ever think you're attractive.

As I've gotten older the "no one will ever want to f**k you" thing has gotten funnier and funnier because a) good, I'm sex repulsed, and b) I know I'm not ugly (well I know it objectively, subjectively I think I'm ugly).

I think both sexes face their challenges. The OP brought up some very good points in her opening post. Applying makeup is a complex process I'm glad I'll never have to perform. Not being able to touch your face all day while it's on is something I'd never even thought off. It would drive me insane. I have a hard enough time fighting the instinct to lick off lipbalm. Having anything near your eyes must be maddening. I'm sure for some of you it triggers sensory issues.

Having one's eyebrows plucked sounds horribly painful. I don't even understand it's necessity since in my view, women with pencil thin eyebrows look very unnatural, as though their eyebrows were drawn on with a marker. Seeing those sharply defined black eyebrows makes them look a bit like vampires. Eyebrows are not supposed to have sharp edges.

I don't know which sex spends more time shaving. Women have a larger area to cover but they do it less often.

Looking "professional" at the office is a requirement for men also. I spend a lot of time on ironing. The parameters for work clothes are limiting. One concession I make is that I get trousers about two inches too big because I hate the sensation of fabric pressed against my skin and I hate not having any room in my pockets. If this makes me look like a rapper, that's just too bad. Men higher up in the organization may not have this choice. No wonder they make phones 6 or 7 millimeters thick. They need to fit in very tight pockets. Button up cuffs are another thing I hate but I have to deal with them. It can all be quite stifling.

The requirement for button up shirts adds another point of failure to the article of clothing. Oddly enough this requirement is not strictly enforced among the women. I've observed them wearing hoodies, sweaters and windcheaters on noncasual days. I asked the manager about this and he said because he didn't understand women's clothing he wouldn't make any attempt to control women's dress codes. He's quite aware that women are granted far more freedom and informality for officeware. I asked a young woman about this and she said the reason why she couldn't be expected to wear button up shirts was because her business made it impractical. She said button up shirts are only suitable for modestly endowed women. Then again, as she works at a fish and chip shop there may be some workaround for this problem that she's is not aware off.

Anyway, to act as though men are exempt from appearing professional in the office shows are startling lack of awareness. It seems very strange to take something that effects both sexes and claim it only effects your own sex. I don't think it's done intentionally, it's just that people seem to be acutely aware of their own problems but problems that affect other people are easily overlooked.

No one is immune from this lack of awareness. Not me. As I said I wasn't aware that women couldn't touch their face without smudging their makeup. It now seems obvious but only after it was brought to my attention.

I've observed both sexes exclaiming their own problems without realizing said problems affect the other sex. I've seen women who thought that only women had problems and I've seen men who thought that only men have problems. I've seen both sexes say the opposite sex has it easy. I've seen feminist videos say that men automatically get loads of respect without trying (not true). I've seen MRA videos saying that girls always have guys competing to help them (not true). Both sides claim the law is stacked against them (not true in either case).

Both sides make the ridiculous claim that the other side have fewer responsibilities. They say this only because they haven't walked in each others shoes.

They should make a movie like Freaky Friday but instead of a generation swap make it a gender swap. Let both the characters start off thinking being the opposite sex is dead easy and then let them find out they were dead wrong. Let the guy turned girl find out what it's like be judged chiefly on appearances. Let the girl turned guy find out that keeping up with his peers achievements is very hard work. Let these gender benders find out their same sex colleagues are more judgemental than they thought.

So many people think the grass is greener on the other side. People saying only their group is beset by problems demonstrates that a dearth of cognitive empathy is alarmingly common.

If you think you know anyone who has it easy than that means you don't know them very well.

I never cared much for clothes (and I hate shopping). I stopped wearing makeup 2 years ago (since it didn't make me look pretty anyway) but I'm wearing it to job interviews and will probably wear it when I start working.

Do people tell you you are unattractive or do you only think they consider you that?
What do you mean by a woman mutilating her body? Piercings, tattoos?

I use an eyebrow trimmer/ eyebrow razor (not sure what those things are called) and do it maybe once a week. It doesn't hurt (and in case someone wonders, there are no noticeable eyebrow stubbles when they grow back, at least not with my hair colour). I don't make them look unnatural or pencil thin, it's just to make them more even and nicer shaped. I think some guys could do with that too.


It's not really the same. I have never seen a woman with hairy legs in public in real life. I would get funny, disgusted looks from people if I went outside in shorts/skirt with hairy legs. A guy can go outside with facial hair and people won't give him weird looks or think he is an unhygienic, disgusting animal.

The amount of women who don't understand that looking natural with no make up is much more attractive to men than wearing make up is seriously surprising.

As long as you are hygienic and wear a smile on your face then you are beautiful.

Yeah, because no women who goes makeup free has ever been told (by either a man or a woman) that they look frumpy and should spruce themselves up more with a little mascara or lipgloss. That never happens, and that's why women everywhere feel no social pressure at all to wear makeup.

A lot of men don't realize that many of those women whom they find attractive actually are wearing makeup. Women who go completely makeup, or toned moisturizer free seem much more likely to be regarded as unattractive or do not catch his eye.

In fact, women will sometimes claim they are not wearing makeup, when they are, or touch up or apply filter to photos to make themselves look better than they actually do. Look at these celebrity selfies for example...

Celebrity selfies "without makeup"

Lady Gaga is wearing something under here eyes to hide dark circles. She also appears to have some eye makeup left on her eyes.

Cindy Crawford is wearing mascara or fake lashes, and possibly foundation, or the image has been touched up or filtered.

Salma Hayek appears to be wearing mascara or fake lashes, and possibly some foundation and blush.

In the first one of Kylie Jenner, she appears to be wearing mascara or fake lashes. In the second one, she appears to be wearing more than mascara, or the camera is being more generous than reality.

Bella Hadid's photo has been digitally retouched. I'm positive of this because I've digitally retouched photos before, and this is exactly what you get.

Emily Ratajowski is wearing heavy eye makeup and/or fake lashes.

Zendaya, mascara or fake lashes.

Kim Kardashian. What this lady doesn't paint on her face, she has it tattooed on her face.

Heidi Klum, digitally retouched or filtered.

Cindy Crawford again. She didn't get all of her eye liner off.

Taylor Swift. Eyeliner.

Gisele Bundchen. Mascara or fake lashes.

Megan Fox. Probably painted in eyebrows, and the photo is digitally retouched or filtered.

Some of them are without anything...Gwenyth Paltrow and Drew Barrymore, for example.

The point still stands that many men find women more attractive when they don't look like they're wearing makeup.

Yes, so there is even more pressure to wear "the right kind of makeup"--just enough to look pretty, but not so much that it's obvious we're wearing makeup.

We can't win either way--some guy will always have an opinion about the makeup we are or are not wearing. It's so tiresome to hear guys' opinions about makeup when they have no idea what they are talking about or what "no makeup" really looks like on most women.

Agree. The "no makeup" makeup looks takes effort too.

An example of the no makeup look:

foundation and/or concealer to even out skin and give the appearance of clear, youthful skin

Blush to give a healthy glow

Lip color to add color to the lips. It must be a neutral, natural color of course

Mascara to give the appearance of thick long lashes

If the eyebrows are thin and sparse they must be filled in with a pencil. If they are too thick they must be waxed, etc.

See? This is quite a bit of work just to appear makeup free. The no makeup look takes time, effort, and skill. Six different products (foundation, concealer, mascara, blush, lip color, eyebrow pencil) applied to the face just to look as if you're wearing nothing but still "beautiful".

Guys don't understand. They like makeup but only if it's applied a certain way to appease them. They don't really like an all natural woman.

Yup its a lot of work and everyone seems to be a critic.

Last week in work the office admin wore white footsie socks with black shoes and cropped trousers (she got dressed in a hurry). She was greeted by another worker as she came through the door stating that she didnt know which was worse, the white socks peeping out or her lack of fake tan on her ankles, on her break she went out and bought nude footsie socks.

Mens opinions on make up lack understanding, so I dont place too much emphasis on what they say, being asked this question as we walked through the foundation aisle, always stayed in my mind "Why does there need to be so many shades of beige?" lol.