A Special Hell for Asperger females

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Anyone experience this?

Female Asperger's self-confidence contradicts the well-worn prejudice that women are inferior and 'by nature' submissive. It is a crime against society for a female child to be equal in confidence, intelligence and expectations for success and fulfillment that any male automatically demands.

The sad irony is, that many males (grudgingly perhaps) will accept our peculiar female type without much more than an initial statement of surprise; male coworkers and friends often note my confidence and abilities as unusual, but not as unwelcome. Males who lack confidence may react badly, but again, males can often adapt, because they must adapt every day to being around confident males.

The Hell that is created for Asperger girls is the special hatred that comes from the socially determined female pack, those 'killers' in defense of the status quo. No one who has seen these gangs of females in action can deny their blood lust; no female who has experienced their wrath can shake off the shock of vicious and final betrayal by her own sex. The equality and trust that Asperger individuals crave from birth are dashed. I feel like a baby seal being clubbed to death.

Actually recently I feel like a baby seal being clubbed to death by males who play with me. Though I agree females can do the same thing. Aspie men are attracted then treat me like I'm toxic when I remain who I am.

I think it doesn't matter who is torturing you. Torture is torture, and people playing mind games, as both genders do, is cruel and hard to cope with.

I'm sorry you are going through this too

i think, as people on the spectrum, we are prone to black and white thinking, and this can be especially problematic in social contexts. try not to think of all women as the enemy just because you've had some bad experiences with some women--i don't want to dismiss any of your suffering, as i understand it all too well from my own personal experiences with female "friends" in my past. all i am saying is this: if you had been mistreated by a group of black people, would you feel alright if you found yourself thinking all black people are now your enemies because of how that one group treated you; or would that kind of thinking perhaps make you uncomfortable and make you think twice about jumping to conclusions and painting whole populations with the same brush because of a few bad experiences with a few individuals of that population? do you see where i'm going with this?

some people just suck, and if you don't play along with the games/social jockeying/emotional manipulation tactics they employ in their everyday lives they will make problems for you--people of all genders, orientations, races, creeds, and political leanings do this, it's not unique to women or men or any other group. really, the only way to deal with such people is to avoid them when you find them, and try instead to fashion connections with people who are genuine, and will allow you to be your genuine self without abusing you. there are men and women of this genuine type to be found, they are out there--but they are (at least, in my estimation) somewhat rare, so appreciate them when you do find them.

I can definitely relate, sadly. Baby seal being clubbed to death is a sadly accurate comparison.

There is a reason I have more male friends than female friends. And what female friends I have are women who can be considered 'on the fringe' of society. I only have two female friends who are of the 'traditionally female' sort. But both are the super social, super inclusive sort who know that I have challenges and from the second I met them just hauled me along with them all "Don't worry about it, hon, just do what I do and you'll be all dandy". I love them to bits. They're the reason why I can sometimes socialize with other women. Apart from that, I'd rather talk about weight lifting, cycling and Top Gear with my guy friends. I've tried making nice with my partner's friends' girlfriends/fiancees. Oh god. I would rather sit through my 'Introduction to Statistical Package for Social Sciences' lecture on an infinite loop.

The story of my life. I have one long-time female friend (pushing 40 years that we've known each other), and have only had a few other female friends in my lifetime. A couple of more recently-made friendships were through a motorcycle forum.

Where my personal baby-seal-clubbing experiences come from are mostly from work. I have almost always worked in male-dominated fields (construction, real estate, law, engineering), and I get along with the guys just fine. The few women I've worked with (and never the higher-ups such as the female lawyers, engineers, etc., just among the lower echelons such as secretaries and administrative assistants) seem to have made it their careers to make me feel excluded, sometimes even shunned and/or persecuted.

I don't know if it's because they sense my inherent differences (like predatory animals sense fear - LOL); or that I don't "play by the rules" by not giving a rat's ass about my clothing, appearance, etc.; or that the guys consider me one of them; or that I have no interest in "typical" womanly pursuits such as child-rearing, cooking and sewing etc. Whatever it is, it seems like there has always been one woman in any workplace that takes great offense to my existence and makes my life a living hell. I've never had a problem with a female supervisor, or any of my male supervisors or co-workers (with the exception of one seriously misogynistic lawyer I worked with - luckily, he was not my supervisor, so I could mostly ignore him). Most of the men who started out treating me in a sexist manner got over it quickly when they discovered that I was incredibly competent and didn't ask for favors due to my gender.

It's like I'm breaking some kind of "girl pact" or something.....

Boys were never attracted to me, so other girls were not feeling threatened and the only girls that messed with me were the ones who were already bullies in general.

I was told by a teacher that boys do not like girls who are not shy. (I guess it's an instinctive thing?) Oh hell, I was anything BUT shy.

There were completely 0 AS boys (even looking back in hindsight) growing up. Certainly nobody to connect to. I never, ever had any male RL friends. The concept was and is completely foreign to me. I had very few actual female friends (mostly acquaintances). This is a fairly solidly blue collar town, so not a lot of tolerance for those who are neurologically different (you'd think otherwise by the voting patterns but oh well).

I guess my Special Hell is that unless a miracle happens, I'm pretty much doomed to "solo mid" forever. Unable to really connect with anyone in my area.

The last part is a big sweeping generalization. Noöne is born knowing what that success and fulfillment is, let alone demanding it. In fact, it has to be earned.



Or maybe the ones who do are too shy themselves to take the initiative. Perhaps, as was said in another thread, they know better than to make their feelings known.

"some people just suck, and if you don't play along with the games/social jockeying/emotional manipulation tactics they employ in their everyday lives they will make problems for you--people of all genders, orientations, races, creeds, and political leanings do this, it's not unique to women or men or any other group. really, the only way to deal with such people is to avoid them when you find them, and try instead to fashion connections with people who are genuine, and will allow you to be your genuine self without abusing you. there are men and women of this genuine type to be found, they are out there--but they are (at least, in my estimation) somewhat rare, so appreciate them when you do find them. Wink
_________________
"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, "


This is true. And lets be honest there is a bit of sexism in all this too if a women is perceived as assertive .

But I try to look for the "good souls" in life and ignore the crappy peeps. It's their problem not my own.

Last edited by Briarsprout on 07 Aug 2014, 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In the movie version of "Hitchhiker Guide to Galaxy" the main heroine notes, "He gets me!" < in context of of understanding her as a person >

I think this is somewhat true in seeking friends or boyfriends etc. This phrase resonates for me because my hubby and I "get each other." My hubby celebrates my differences very much, I call this out to say there are good souls out there and people who will celebrate us as individuals.

The comment about lower-tier women being prone to baby-seal-clubbing has been my experience. Twice at my work place, I have been the victim of packs of women. In the first case, it was a bunch of administrative girls who would single out smart girls to torture. The girls who were cut out to actually achieve something professionally- did not participate in this behavior.

Packs of gossipy women are scary! More recently, I was harassed by a pack of older women and tons of gay men at work. This happened over a full year and at the end I was ready to file for sexual harassment, because their harassment was all gender based-- they were spreading rumors that were completely ridiculous-- that I was having an affair with a coworker-- but the scary thing is that almost everyone seemed to believe these rumors. Men were definitely just as guilty-- not to stereotype, but in this particular pack of wolves, gay men were big participants. Then the heterosexual guys were guilty as well in that some of the wanted to test out these rumors by making inappropriate remarks to me. After this experience, I realized, age certainly does not necessarily mean people get wiser! This made me really sad to see such a level of pettiness in people who have had such a long life experience !

Aside from that terrible experience, generally I feel more comfortable with men than women ( I think the slight attraction makes men more tolerant toward my quirks). However one particularly annoying thing with men is that lots of men believe that women cannot understand certain topics. For example, I've got a decent engineering mind. But many men have pressured me into pretending that their ridiculous solutions to things are better, simply because they are men. This happens ALL the time and I get so tired of it, especially when they insist on implementing these idiotic solutions that end up costing more time and effort to fix their work.

I have always wondered if part of the problem is that I am perceived as a really feminine woman and it's not possible in men's minds that a feminine woman they find attractive could have a better engineering solution? Or that I could have an accurate answer about a technical topic that I was not formally educated in...

Also, Male Answer Syndrome. It just kills me. I cannot stand it when men BS about stuff and pretend they are right even though they have not done research on the topic, and don't know anything about the topic. It is just torture to deal with this attitude.

Now that I am older, I just nod my head and might voice my opinion just once or twice, but usually I'll just let it go and ignore their bad advice in my own work.

For the guys that insist on wrong construction/engineering solutions-- I just find someone else to work with.

yes, in my experience the girl bully thing is absolutely about sexual competition. In both cases I was bullied at work there was sexual competitiveness going on. Not on my part! But they imagined it and it was real to them.

As for boys not being attracted to you-- one of the amazing things I have discovered by observation in my life is that I think many men can simply feel attracted to a woman who acts attracted to them.
You should try this experiment. Show someone you like that you are attracted to them. Act like you want to be attractive to them. They might be flattered by the attention...

Uh....

I don't know anyone IRL to do this with.

(also I'm old and heavy enough for it to be negative attention to any hypothetical guys)

Yes. This is true. They hate us. I didn't recognize the reasons for it for a long time, but it's true. All it takes is not dressing like them, not following their silly trends of fashion, hair and makeup styles. And not following their gossip, not recognizing the celebrities that "everyone is talking about"-- I recognize it now. I actively don't care about those things now. But in middle school I had no clue why nobody liked me. I thought of all kinds of superficial reasons--my glasses, my braces, my size (much smaller than most girls my age), being the smartest academically even though I was the youngest chronologically, the clothes, the freckles, the fidgeting--now I realize that those things were part of it. But mostly it was my inability to read the social nuances and the nonverbal cues.

Even my little sister did this to me--and still does a lot. She liked me okay until she started school. As soon as she started interacting with neurotypical kids, she realized her big sister was freaky weird, and started tormenting me just like my female peers did. It's awful. It flies in the face of the Asperger's strong sense of fairness and justice.

That is too bad about your little sister. That sounds so irritating. I hope as she gets older she will grow out of this and grow into appreciating what makes you unique! Maybe educating her about your feelings will help her understand that you may not be NT but you can still have a mutually supportive relationship as long as she respects you.

I grew up with my NT older sister bullying me and mocking me every day. In adulthood I felt my NT younger sister would ape everything I did, but she would do it in an NT way and a very competitive way. It was really important to her to be more popular and more charismatic than me (though I was neither!).

At the same time even into adulthood, I feel both my sisters are resentful that I didn't provide the emotional support NTs need and expect, and neither do they seem to be able to accept that I can never fulfill their expectations in this way. I believe my dad is pretty aspie, and my mom may be partially so. This means my poor NT sisters remain perpetually angry and confused about the entire family.

The nice thing about adulthood and being independent is that I do not need to be around them every single day! That would be too difficult. As adults, I enjoy an email banter with them where we can write warmly to each other without too much misinterpretation. But when we see each other in person, all those childhood issues and powerplays and irritations are always under the surface.

I hope your sister can grow to be more open minded and accepting than mine! At least you seem to have some self knowledge earlier in your life than I did.

My hope with my sisters is that one day they can accept the aspieness of the rest of the family and laugh about how they projected all these emotional needs onto the rest of us, who have no capacity to understand their needs.

elephantgirl my little sister will be turning forty in October, so if she hasn't grown up enough to respect and love people in spite of our differences and freakiness she might never get there. And I don't think I have the self-knowledge I should at my age, either. I'm in my mid-forties and only just now starting to think that I'm probably autistic! To me "autistic" was always my big brother's best friend's little brother. Not high-functioning, babbles about things nobody cares about, repeats the same conversation with any given person every time he sees them, definitely doesn't know when to shut up. I kind of feel bad now about the way I've always looked down on him, but I still think of him as a hard person to deal with.

I think my mom might also be autistic, but I'm not sure of that either. All I know is my sister is definitely NT, all about social relationships, very shallow, and deliberately pushes people's buttons.

And that's a thing I' will never understand: deliberately being mean, as if it gives them some feeling of power that they can hurt someone's feelings? I hurt people's feelings accidentally kind of a lot, and I hate the way I feel when I realize it. What good feeling can come from deliberately tormenting someone and creating fights and drama over nothing?