Mail order brides (and more rarely, grooms)

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What do you all think of the phenomenon of "mail order brides" ? While I admit that every woman has the right to decide for herself about whether (or not) she wants her photographs splashed across a "bridal catalogue" to be perused, purchased, and paid for by a man of means, does this practice also not cheapen women into commodities that can be advertised, bought and sold for the "right price" ?

Very often, the women who become mail order brides come from poor families or from poor countries, and resort to this activity to escape to a "better" life in a more financially stable country, so - to some extent - I can see that desperation for a better life for themselves (and their families) is a fair-enough motive to engage in the practice. Poverty is to blame. But I often wonder why men - especially seemingly well off men who can offer a woman a "great future" - would buy a wife off a catalogue ? Surely a lot of local women would be more than happy with the notion of exploring a relationship / marriage to a well-off, kind gentleman ? And given the diversity of most populations, one no longer has to go off to exotic locales to find the "types" that one is most attracted to. So why not go out and date and find a wife the "traditional" way ?

Is this a control thing that "purchasing" a mail order wife who is poor and has no real financial options back home will result in a submissive wife who will be "grateful" for the "opportunities" he is offering her, and will willingly put up with anything, including abuse ? Again, there have been a couple of cases of these mail order brides also killing / economically abusing their "well-off" husbands, but these incidents are few and far between and it is usually the wife - not the husband - who is at the receiving end of such abuse. Despite this, this "trend" seems to be alive and well. Also, I have heard of such a thing as "mail order grooms" but they seem so rare that I have never met anyone who actually "ordered" her man online !

Your thoughts, please ?

Have you seen 'orange is the new black'
It explores the issue quite well, (among other unequal relationships)

Mail-order brides: old practice still seen as new chance for a better life – for some

I can't imagine sending away for a groom. That would be too weird.

This. The wife usually divorces her husband as soon as she has a way to stay in the country without him, though. Then he complains that she used him, and that's what's known as irony.

I dont understand how that relationship would work, one person is more significant than the other, and would always be so. I suppose its quite traditional when its a bride, but when its a groom that's mail ordered could it be considered progressive?

Hey, this is interesting. My son's former preschool teacher is an Irish Catholic who grew up in a blue-collar town where everyone's father was a worker belonging to a labour union in the manufacturing industry. She is the only daughter among 9 children, and ALL but one of her brothers (also blue collar workers working in the same industry and belonging to a trade union like their father) had a "mail order" marriage. Now, I know that that is still a tiny sample of 7 (and ALL from one family) but it still ties in neatly with this "statistic".




... then time to overcome your inhibitions and send away for a hot young fella from a catalogue, Ann old girl. It just might be the best thing you ever did for yourself ! He he...

I think it's stupid and disgusting. But I'm a woman, so...

Marriage used to be more of a contract for convenience than for love. I'd say it's probably still like that in many parts of the world.

In the U.S. not too long ago, fathers used to marry off their daughters to someone to take over the duty of caring for her. Women didn't really have rights for a long time, and so generally it was the parents' responsibility to marry them off.

And those from wealthier families were sometimes married to particular men for business purposes. Like to gain land, or to join two businesses or families in something like a merger.

This mail-order bride thing really isn't that different. It's almost like a business transaction. I don't necessarily agree with it, but if that's what people want to do, so be it.

^ I agree Yigeren. Yeah there are remnants of the gender inequalities, they will fade with time, I think though when judging a traditional type marriage arrangement its important to consider the cultural context. Its really not that long ago that the state lifted the marriage bar here (Ireland), the 70s are of course within living memory.
Consider access to employment as a barrier, the married female labour force participation in Ireland had been low in the 1960’s and 1970’s. Only 5.2% of married were employed in 1961, 7.5% in 1971, after the marriage bar was lifted in 1973 the rate more than doubled to 16.7% in the time to 1981. From 1981 to 2004 the figures went from 16.7% to 49.4%.
It was normal for the husband to be the provider, the decision maker, wives simply did not have the same rights as their husbands. I think perhaps more progressive countries might be shocked by arranged/mail order marriages, due to the lack of free choice, but maybe its just normal within certain cultures.
Recently I read the article 'Ten things an Irish woman could not do in 1970 (and be prepared to cringe...)' here are some excerpts taken from The Galway Advertiser article, Thu, Dec 13, 2012

1.Keep her job in the public service or a bank when she got married Female civil servants and other public servants (primary teachers from 1958 were excluded from the so-called "marriage bar" ) had to resign from their jobs when they got married, on the grounds that they were occupying a job that should go to a man. Banks operated a similar policy.
The marriage bar in the public service was removed in July 1973, on foot of the report of the first Commission on the Status of Women. In 1977, the Employment Equality Act prohibited discrimination on the grounds of gender or marital status in almost all areas of employment.

2. Sit on a jury Changed after 1976

3. Buy contraceptives Doctors could prescribe them to married couples from 1979, but they weren’t publically available until a 1985 Act allowed contraceptives to be sold to anyone over 18 but only in chemists. In 1991 Virgin Megastore was prosecuted for selling condoms. Later that year, the sale of contraceptives was liberalised.

4. Drink a pint in a pub In 1970, some pubs refused to allow women to enter at all, some allowed women only if accompanied by a man and very many refused to serve women pints of beer, only half-pint glasses. In 2002, the Equal Status Act banned gender discrimination in the provision of goods and services.

5. Collect her children's allowance Until 1974 legislation specified that it was paid to the father, who could authorise his wife to collect it if he chose.

6. Get a barring order against a violent partner In 1976 the Family Law Act, Ireland's first legislation on domestic violence, enabled one spouse to seek a barring order against the other for three months, where the welfare or safety of a spouse or children was at risk. In 1981, protection orders were introduced and barring orders were increased up to 12 months.

7. Live securely in her family home Under Irish law, a married woman had no right to a share in her family home, even if she was the breadwinner. Her husband could sell the home without her consent, this was in effect until 1976.

8. Refuse to have sex with her husband A husband was assumed to have the right to have sex with his wife and consent was not, in the eyes of the law, an issue. Women's adultery was also specifically penalised in the civil law, the notorious tort of "criminal conversation" or "CrimCon": a husband could legally sue another man for compensation for sleeping with his wife. It was not until 1990 that marital rape was defined as a crime. The first trial, in 1992, collapsed within minutes. The first successful prosecution for marital rape was in 2002.

9. Choose her official place of domicile Under Irish law, a married woman was deemed to have the same "domicile" as her husband, in 1985 legislation granted married women the right to an independent domicile.

10. Get the same rate for a job as a man Legislation on equal pay was introduced in 1974 and employment equality legislation followed in 1977, both as a result of European directives.

For some reason my perspective is that mail order brides seem to fit a more traditional way of being.

Now, back to the catalogue, where is that groom section .

Last edited by Amity on 18 Mar 2016, 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^ Very interesting, and actually quite shocking. I did not realize that. I know little of Irish history.

If you look farther back, to the medieval period, Irish women had many more rights than women elsewhere. That changed with the growing influence of the Anglos.

^Brehon law was more equitable for women, divorce, property rights, protection from abuse, but there have been so many outside influences since then, my basic understanding: the first amalgamation happened with church law as negotiated by St Patrick, and it superseded Brehan law if a conflict of interest arose.

Then I want this guy:

I've known three men who either did this or attempted to. One was a guy my family had known for a long time - he seemed like a genuinely nice guy. His wife divorced him and his wife and kinds had nothing to do with him after that. When we heard he was bringing a wife from the Philippines, we all actually worried he would be taken advantage of financially - but that woman turned out to be such a loyal, devoted wife! He got sick and died - no one else from his family came to visit, and this lady looked after him the whole time. Next case: another somewhat naive guy thought he was "in love" with this woman from Russia who had convinced him to send money. She then said she'd come back to the US with him, if he would meet her in Russia - this guy flew all the way to Russia and she stood him up. I think this guy just didn't know how to relate to women and though the could buy his way, and instead he got played. Third case: a guy I met at doctor's office who had just finished losing a lot of weight through gastric bypass surgery. He showed an arrogant persona (not sure if it was genuine or not, if he was just insecure), but was bragging about how he was going to get this beautiful Asian bride through one of these dating services. Showing off her pics and everything - like she was an object. I felt really concerned for the woman. I don't know what happened. It is sad - I watched a whole documentary about these kinds of things, and why the girls from these areas decide this is their best chance for a better life, and then also some social services devoted to rescuing these brides from abusive relationships.

In the UK i knew 2 women who went to Jamaica to get a husband,

I find the idea of mail order brides kind of creepy. It just seems like a controlling type of situation, because these women often don't have anything better to go to.