Any Other Girls Confused by the "Extreme Male Brain" Theory?

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So, I have heard from several places that autism is "the extreme male brain"- in other words, us females on the spectrum are more masculine than female NTs. Personally, I have never found this to be true for me. I am a very logical person, yes, but I am also pretty empathetic, though I am (obviously) terrible at reading social cues. I am geeky, but not more masculine than most of my friends, and I certainly identify and dress like a female, and fit in as a fairly feminine girl. While I am not the stereotypical "popular" girl who loves nothing more than clothes and boys and hanging out at the mall, I have certainly never felt masculine in the least. So this theory seems odd to me. It could stem from sexism in diagnosing autism spectrum disorders. Or, of course, I could just be an exception?
Any other feminine girls who feel like this? What do you think?

That's not what it means, it's not related to physical gender. A "male type" brain (not a male brain) is better at logic and the practical and less good at the emotional. A "female type" brain (not a female brain) is better at the emotional and less the logical. They're called as such because females tend to have the "female type" brain and males tend to have the "male type", however men can have a female type brain and women can have a male type brain. It's no reflection on how "male" or "female" the person is, just how they think. So the extreme male type means it's even more inclined toward the logical and even less inclined toward the emotional.

I can understand it a bit explained as logical thinker = more male, emotional = more female. But other than that, it seems odd or incorrect to me. I'm a female, I act and think like a female, and to my knowledge, I am not thinking or operating at the degree of an NT male, which is what some of the studies seem to imply, or what I logically understand from what I have read. Some of the studies also cite a higher presence of testosterone in the womb, which would also indicate being more "masculine," and I am not masculine.

It's an interesting theory, but I'd like to see a lot more studies/evidence before I could accept it has valid or even a possibility.

If a feminine boy can add his opinion, it sounds like a load of hooey to me. I can conditionally accept Chichikov's definitions; the condition is we need new language. We love our logic, but to call aspies unemotional overlooks something rather significant. Erm, meltdowns?

I gave up on having a cold logical self image when I started to explore the usefulness of emotions. Engaging in that kind of exercise also provides a safety valve, to some extent.

I didn't want to think about how I cried while being teased for a long time afterward, so I can see why some aspies have a self-image as unemotional. It seems perfectly healthy at some various stages in life, but not in my opinion as a permanent condition.

Okay, maybe I worded that poorly. I didn't mean to imply that it implied anything about physical gender, though rereading what I said, I didn't make that too clear. (Though I have in fact read theories where people did extend this theory to include physical gender.) What I think is odd is that I don't think that things are as binary as "Male type brains are logical", "female type brains are emotional", and from what I've studied, (I'm a neuroscience major), males are not actually more logical than females. (Though they do reflect less on emotions.) So maybe it's just a misnomer? Also, I haven't seen any evidence that someone can't be both emotional and logical. I think humans just like to oversimplify things into black or white issues, in a way that doesn't translate to reality. I also think this theory is largely based on stereotypes. I don't know, maybe someone else has seen different research than I have though.

This has been my experience as well. I am generally a logical thinker, but I am a far cry from "unemotional." In fact, I'm forced to spend a massive amount of time considering others and their feelings, since they tend to spend little time considering me and will get angry if I act in a way they aren't expecting.

Nobody is claiming people with AS are unemotional. This is the problem discussing these things, people are too willing to jump to extreme assumptions. You say that people are less able to deal with emotional issues and they come back saying "that's rubbish, with with AS are not emotionless". Since when does "less able" mean completely absent? Having issues dealing with emotions (your own as well as understanding and responding to those of others) is a key factor underpinning an AS diagnosis so how can anyone possibly claim that it's "rubbish" that people with AS have brains that are less able to deal with emotions?

Also aren't meltdowns an example of poor emotional handling? If you could handle your emotions better then surely you wouldn't have meltdowns?

I tried my best to explicitly separate "male type" from "male" and "female type" from "female", yet you're still implying when discussing "male type brain" we are discussing men. I don't know how else I can word it to explain that's not what anyone is saying. If you don't get that you're never going to understand this theory.



That is also a brain type, a more neutral one. Again please let me iterate this as explcitly as I can...having a neutral brain type does not mean you are neither male nor female, not intersex, demisex, pansex, trans or anything else. It's simply a label given to how the brain functions based on gender stereotypes, nothing to do with your actual physical gender.



Yes it is based on stereotypes, there is nothing wrong with that. Men tend to have male type brains ergo their name. Women tend to have female type brains ergo their name. Again I really can't state this explicitly enough...."tend to" does not mean "always has", however I have a horrible feeling those words are going to fall on deaf ears.

When looking at and studying the sexes every individual is different obviously, but trends do appear and it is important to recognise and study those trends. One of those trends is that women do tend to have a higher emotional intelligence than men tend to have (again note the word "tend"). There are numerous studies that prove this. I realise that it's not "politically correct" these days to suggest that men and women are different but, I'm sorry to tell you this, men and women are different.

Hon. You just like, completely ignored what I said. This is totally ridiculous. I know men and women are different, yes, thank you. Like I said, I am actually a neuroscience major, I am actually studying the brain. Studying neuroscience and psychology also just so happens to be one of my biggest obsessions. Here are some actual differences between the male and female brain, if you were curious, which it doesn't sound like you are, besides just confirmation bias. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/ ... -and-women Women do tend to have more emotional intelligence than men, but no, men do not tend to be more logical, sorry, that is in fact a stereotype. Though actually, I found it curious that this study cites men having (on average) a thicker amygdala, which is involved in emotional response. (Though more along the lines of anger/aggression.) Women, on the other hand, had (on average), a thicker cortex. (What we generally call the "most human" part of the brain, because it handles a lot of our higher functions.) Notice that this study is not suggesting either sex is inherently smarter- because there isn't in fact an inherently smarter sex, though women do tend to be better at language and men at manipulation of shapes in space. (This may be because of nature, nurture, or a combination of both. Who can say? But it is in fact something that has been studied, unlike what you are claiming.)

Basically, do stop putting words in my mouth. You're the one with deaf ears. I did suggest that maybe "male type brain" and "female type brain" were misnomers entirely unrelated to sex, but you just breezed right over that and accused me of not listening, and of claiming a neutral brain made you intersex, which I never said. My friend, I have in fact studied biology and genetics in a university setting. I do understand biological gender, (which we actually call sex, if you were wondering, gender being the presentation of said sex in relation to society, but I digress...) both from a genetic and "what junk you have perspective."

Even still, I think it is stupid to think of emotional vs logical as a binary system, whether there is "neutral" between them or not, and whether it is meant to be related to your actual sex or gender or not. It doesn't have any sound basis in science, from what I can tell... These are several sections of your brain, you realize, and turning on one does not turn off another. Although you do see this represented in character archetypes on television, which is maybe where you are getting your information? I get it, it can be hard to separate fact from fiction.

This is why it is generally not an intelligent choice to base your scientific theory around stereotypes. It tends to oversimplify, as I said, and not be based in facts, because, lemme give you a hint... Stereotypes tend to be based in hate, not fact.

I think the EMB theory is an oversimplification. It seems to me like if all aspies fit a "high systemizing / low empathizing" neurotype, we wouldn't have so many religious aspies.

No, I'm not. Why would I be and what does that have to do with this thread? You're the only person talking about gender no matter how many times I try to drive home that this is nothing to do with gender.



So when the stereotype favours the female it is accurate, but when it favours the male it isn't? So you're not interested in facts, you're really just "one of those"?



No-one said there was. Why are you still focusing on gender? Why are you making straw-man arguments?



They're not misnomers because they're not related to gender. No matter how many times I state this you just don't get it.



No-one is claiming it is.



"Women do tend to have more emotional intelligence than men", "men do not tend to be more logical", "women do tend to be better at language", "men [tend to be better] at manipulation of shapes in space".

Good luck with your degree, you're going to need it.

Lol, I shouldn't even be arguing with you... You wouldn't even read that article. You are completely disinterested in facts, and there's no way to change the mind of someone who doesn't have an open mind to begin with.

What I put were not stereotypes. They were things that have actually been studied and proven using brain scans and psychological experiments. What you put were stereotypes, because they don't have evidence backing them up. See the difference?

Obviously not. But arguing with an idiot is like arguing with a brick wall. I give up.

Just wondering - do the Christian devout Aspies skew towards Calvinism? John Calvin was a lawyer - and law codes tend to skew towards Boolean systematisation. Look at Penal Substitutionary Atonement....

On the naming - back in the 80s/90s when SBC was doing all this stuff, the lay split of sex/gender hadn't really happened... so it was easy shorthand...

I was there when it was being discussed on the early lists...

I don't relate to it at all. And although I'm not devoid of logic -- quite frankly that would make me stupid and I'm not a stupid person -- I would say I am an emotional person, which I feel is tied into my artistic abilities. I feel; I'm an INFJ.

Again, that doesn't mean I don't use logic too. I do. I don't think anyone with any intellect at all doesn't use logical thinking. But I'm far more on the emotional side generally in my personality.

I have never felt "male" in my thinking, my feelings, or even in my logic. I think it's a bit sexist to say females are all emotion and males are all logic, to be honest.

Probably is.. but outside social science, everything was more gendered when the research was being done... and they were the baseline assumptions and positions at the time...

I'm disinterested in dragging this thread off topic. As I've said from the opening, you are the only one that thinks this is about gender, you don't understand what is being proposed and you never will. My own degree involved cognitive psychology so I'm more familiar with the subject matter than you're aware, but those that actually understand don't need to crow about their qualifications in lieu of an actual argument.


I mentioned women having higher emotional intelligence, and the "logic" part of the male type brain includes spatial awareness. You rubbished them both yet went on to claim them yourself and that they were proven by experiments. It seems to me you don't hold others to your own standards, you use stereotypes and claim yours are ok, but when others use stereotypes you simply claim theirs are rubbish offhand, even though you claim yourself later on they are proven?

Gaining a degree will require understanding theories and unbiased analytical thinking, something you are sorely lacking which is why I wished you luck.