Can a woman be lesbian AND feminist???

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Any which way. Just because a woman is gay doesn't mean she isn't prejudiced.

In the 80's there were several feminist activist groups that I would consider very anti-feminist. They wanted their members to live in communes. If they had a family they were encouraged to break with them. The result was broken families and mothers that left children behind or abandon their husband/partner. Every woman was assumed to be gay regardless of whether they were or not. Men weren't allowed to be feminist according to them. Despite doing some direct action/vandalism they also managed to get themselves on some prominent political comities. They got star struck with the identity politics of the day, and that was more divisive than anything. The label 'feminist' itself has become a dirty word or almost meaningless. Considering that prejudice can come from every angle and the very complicated dynamics involved I feel I'd rather identify myself as a humanist rather than a feminist, and feel it would be better to tackle it with a comprehensive approach as many things are related. That doesn’t mean there still aren’t important women’s issues that need to be addressed.

SpaceCase. Sexuality is important, but feminism is not just about sexuality. I would be only concerned with what you believe in rather than whether people think its ok for you to be called.

just think about what you are saying, 0_equals_true.

that women of the 80's were somehow of one mind about feminism.
that women were coerced to leave their happy homes and forced to join 'communes'
that perfectly good heterosexuals were somehow successfully indoctrinated to become homosexuals
that they were forced to join communities where their personal rights and freedoms were mandatorily given up (by peer pressure or a gun to the head or what ever made them toe the fascist feminist line.)
that they were compelled to commit vandalism and become 'star struck' in their political power
and
because of all this illegal kidnapping and forced indoctrination the people that did all this were not arrested and convicted of these crimes but they simply caused their label of 'feminism' to be a "dirty word, or meaningless"and the perpetrators walked away Scot Free?

no, you are talking about Lesbian Separatist Communities, not the Feminism Movement. They are concurrent but they are NOT the same.

So tell me, 0_equals_true, if all this was done to innocents, don't you think I could find one case, even ONE CASE of it on WestLaw?

Perhaps it is listed next to the mythological 'bra burning(http://womenshistory.about.com/od/myths ... urning.htm)


So, 0_equals_true, since I lived in Berkeley and in the Feminist movement of the 1960's till the present, I would love to see some actual documentation to your outrageous claims about feminism of the 80's. I will not accept any information from Rush Limbaugh, though, so that might just cut down on your 'proof'.

oh, and I have the documentation, so bring it on.

Merle

Yeah, I can't stand when someone brings up some radical corner of a movement and then says that it tainted the whole movement.
I wouldn't even say that the Lesbian Separatists are indicative of many lesbians, again, a corner of one group.

In all my life, the only man-haters have I ever come across are straight women, mostly divorced and over 30. I never understood it, but I guess many misogynist men worked the same way. (desiring a relationship with a gender you hate and fear)

Wow wasn't expecting that. I never said that were women were of one mind ever. In fact I think that is a flaw of some people who call themselves feminists have.

'several feminist activist groups' does not equal all. I meant a number of not even the majority, they just happened to have some influence such as the Greater London Council.

Now I’m am extremist, great…

I'll try to find the bbc documentary, that interviewed various people in various feminist groups. I never said they were forced or coerced. I did see some regret and also tears in one or two of them not all. That doesn't mean they didn't still feel they didn't do important work, or even believe in it. What I was talking about happened in the uk.

Regardless I still don't see how you would think being gay automatically make you free of prejudice or a feminist. That was my point after all.

Please can you re-read what I wrote? to try see it in a slightly differently light--I'm not a neocon. I just think the world 'feminism' has ownership issues with some people. The identity politic problem was something brought up by some the members themselves and creating an impossibly fragmented system.

I would consider myself a humanist. Especially we as humans are capable of choices, even counter to our original animal behavior or as it is involving. That is an amazing/beautiful capability that we have. We actually need that to live in a society in my opinion, constantly adjusting to gain a sense of stability. I don’t really think anyone is ever ‘stable’ as in there isn’t neutral in a person people adjust all the time so that we can get along or not. As a liberal I believe people have a choice to live ‘traditionally’ so long as they don’t force their view on other people. Traditions come and go. I’m not really a fan of Victorianism. But I wouldn’t insist on my lifestyle either, or even claim to know myself. The 60’s was by no means the first ‘sexual revolution’ or as you said all that accurately depicted.

To answer your question I think so.

well first off there were straight women feminists, but then as lesbians became more out there they wanted to be part of that whole empowerment thing even though some straight women feminists didn't want them in thier ranks it eventually came to where there were more lesbian feminists than straight ones. feminism is for everyone lesbian or not. It's all about getting together and empowering eachother and yourself.

I don't see why not.

Yeah.

I'm more wondering whether a woman can be straight and a femenist, because I think that's what I am.

i appreciate reading your comments, I realize the generation I am from had to take control more assertively than the younger generation. That is wonderful. .. if I might just dote on you for a moment. That is why my generation fought the good fight, so your generation could calmly accept it as your right to be you.


Merle

by the way, Hale_Bopp I admire your avatar. I consider Snape to be the Hero in the HP series.

that is a conundrum. Straight and advocating equal rights for men and women.

That can get tricky for a heterosexual. I have found being a female supremist and a heterosexual worked better for me. I had to beat the men off with a cane...(LOL) literally!

Merle

I didn't care to read if anyone has already said this, but there was a whole movement on this. "Radical Lesbians" I believe they call themselves. "Queer History of the United States" is a good read.

This topic is seven years old.

That means we were chatting about it when you were 19. Welcome to how time works.

^ Well, you have posted for the first time within a year just to say that to me. I'm...honoured?

Not sure I wish I was 19 again.

Of one thing I am certain, Smudge, time does not do that. So you don't have to make a decision to go back in time.
time flies like an arrow
fruit flies like a banana. . .

Time flies. But which way?