Is Philogyny a negative thing?

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I'm asking as a man for opinions from women here.

A philogynist is basically the polar opposite of a misygonist, it usually refers to men who have an obsessive admiration for women (but not in a sexual way).

I used to consider myself a feminist because I have always admired women in entertainment, history, and in folklore/mythology. I've always put everything from Goddesses to Queens to Witches to Amazons on a pedastal and preferred them over their male counterparts.

But my sister told me that isn't really true feminism, it's really called "philogyny". True Feminism is the belief and support for equality of both genders.

And although my sister didnt explain this to me in a way to make me feel like it was wrong, when I researched the word online I found that it is actually considered offensive and a "disease" by many women to feel this way...

I just want to know what do the women of WP feel about men who are like this? Is it a toxic mindset cut from the same cloth as misygony?

Philogyny is a fondness, admiration or love for women. This, by itself, is not inherently a bad thing.

However, it starts to become an issue when possessiveness or unrealistic expectations come into the picture.

It is one thing to admire women, it is quite another to become angry after discovering that women are just... flawed humans living their own life. Because everyone is flawed in some capacity.

Some artists have muses. People that inspire their artwork. That are the subject of various paintings, music videos etc. However, not all muses have been treated properly. Picasso was not kind to the women that he considered his muses. He cared more about them as an abstract idea, rather than as individuals.

That's the main thing, really. There's nothing wrong with having an interest in Goddesses, folklore, Queens and Witches. So long as you keep in mind that women are just humans rather than unapproachable divine entities. It's all a matter of how far you take it.

I think I see now. Women really are just like any other human being and they have flaws too. Putting unrealistic expectations on anybody is a bad thing.

I don't think I've ever truly went that far... but I have been known to unintentionally annoy both my mom and my sister when I obsess to them about real life warrior women for example (like the Japanese onna-bugeisha or the women army of Dahomey in West Africa).

I think it annoys them because neither of them are actually into the idea of war so for me to talk about it so much to them is like mansplaning. Not every woman (or man) has to be a "warrior".

Speaking of artists like Picasso who treated their muses badly, I wonder if John Waterhouse was the same way? He's my favorite classic artist known for painting a lot of women from different roles in both Greek Mythology and Arthurian Legend...

How can a person have fondness or admiration for an entire group of humans they've never met? Unless the philogynist has met every woman on Earth, they shouldn't have a prejudice toward liking them or having any opinion of their character. If they do, that means the philogynist is making sexist assumptions about women based on stereotype.

I'd rather that no one have fondness or admiration for me based on my genitals or perceived hormonal status. It's actually creepy that they might.

Where does this end? Do philogynists only feel fondness for afab women? Does it include transwomen? Does it include women who are violent, sexist, or racist?

I don't understand the concept at all.

I've known plenty of philogynists who tried to idealize me based on characteristics they assumed I have, which I don't. It's happened here on WP as well. Someone was obsessed with the idea of limerence and muses, and treating women as objectified abstractions rather than human beings who aren't necessarily different in their character than men.

Well if it makes you feel better I'm going to at least try to make a concious effort to stop doing it...

Thank you.

Racism and sexism can include admiration for specific groups as well. A person can be racist for thinking one demographic is better than another even if they don't belong to that demographic themselves. It's the same with sexism. It's sexist for a person to think men are better, or women are better, regardless of their own sex / gender expression.

I think it's healthy for all people to recognise the struggles and challenges of various ethnic groups and all genders. We can support causes like BLM, or women's rights and feminism, without espousing a belief in social hierarchies or rank.

I agree.

Speaking of feminism and equality, that's why I've cooled it on the whole Lilith thing. Frankly I don't understand how she became such a popular symbol for feminism in modern times because I now realize how horrible she was. She was nothing more than a malevolent demon loosely inspired by Lamashtu who murdered children and pregnant mothers and basically raped men in their sleep to steal their sperm so she could give birth to demon offspring (most of which she allowed to die).

It's like you were saying about how wrong it is to obsessivsly admire women who are racist and sexist or just downright malicious and cruel.

I find the way that neo-pagans and people claiming to be feminists who have whitewashed Lilith to be a pretty disturbing trend. But I was guilty of that sort of thing too...

I think you're right that women who do evil and criminal things should be held to the same standards as men who do the same, not worshipped and admired.

If we exalt one group, by definition it means other groups are below it.
That's -ism, so I don't go there.

But on the other hand I think the reason I respond better to women and feminine things was because I grew up with a strong single mother and a sister I'm very close to. A lot of grandmothers, many aunts, a great grandmother who my mom tells me was an amazing woman, and a whole lot of female teachers growing up who I felt close to and inspired me.

And frankly most of the male figures in my life were disappointments. My real dad abandoned me shortly after I was born, my mom was married to abusive men who treated her very badly and one even tried to kill her and still stalks her to this day. My uncle was a drunk and a drug addict who went to prison for manslaughter and felt no guilt over it when he was released, and my mom had a sister who was brutally murdered by her husband, and this same man also raped my mom when she was only 13.

So honestly can you really blame me for favoring women over men given what I grew up around?

I've been abused too. Many of us have. My solution is to favour good people over a specific gender. I don't judge people before meeting them, or perform genital exams to determine which people make me feel comfortable. I judge by the way they treat me and everyone else on the planet.

That's an excellent point. I've known plenty of women who were abusive nasty pieces of work too, like my mom's mom for example. She was horrible to my mom and most likely a narcissist.

We should all try to get to know people before we judge them and not make assumptions.

Some people feel less comfortable around those that remind them of their abuser - sometimes it could be men or women in general. We can't always control what does or doesn't make us uncomfortable. It just is.

I tend to be less comfortable around men than women, but I have a much harder time when the specific individual looks like one of my abusers.

I think I now realize it's possible that I can still appreciate the concept of women's roles in entertainment, art, history, and mythology without taking it to the extreme and putting unrealistic expectations on women I know in real life. I can accept the fact that women are just as human as men but I just prefer women more in whatever roles they play in life.

If you're familiar with the metaphor of putting people up on a pedestal, philogyny seems to be a form of that based on demographic traits.

Generally speaking, when one places people up on a pedestal, they dehumanize them to an extent, even if it's not intended and entirely driven by admiration. Everyone's flawed. No one deserves a pedestal and it's not a fair position to be put into, for the person or people it's being done to.

Besides, if you put women up on a pedestal perverts will try to look up their skirts.

Well... what if I work on appreciating women's struggles throughout time without putting them on a pedastal?

Because honestly I think there is a lot to admire about women who have worked hard to get where they are today in our society. I mean if you went back in time just a couple of hundred years women were basically thought of as merely property. I really do respect the fact that women have struggled so hard for their rights and to gain recognition for their contributions to society.

But that said I don't have to become someone who is distrustful of men... I should seek out the positive things men have done for society too and think about the problems that men often face. And realize that men are also only human.

I think it hasnt helped my perception that my mom has admitted to me several times that she hates men. That's just being honest.

I'm not quite a woman, but I am AFAB (assigned female at birth). The idea does put me on guard a bit, just cause it brings to mind someone who at least comes across as having ulterior motives.

That said, everyone has some kind of interest, especially those of us on the spectrum. Strong admiration on its own isn't a bad thing. My only advice is to be careful how your admiration is expressed when interacting with women.