Transgender?

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Hi ladies,

As a transwoman and an aspie, I'm not always sure where the border exists for female spaces for someone in my unique situation.

I was born male, but have identified as neutral or feminine for most of my life (The neutral primarily because I was suppressing the feminine.)

I understand that there is some hot debate in the feminist community as to whether to allow transgender women into female spaces, and since I don't want to be a source of contention or a cause for fear of being honest, I'm going to put up a poll, and one no answer and I'll stay off this forum.

( I made it a poll so you could answer anonymously.)

I am also Transgenderd and now regard myself as no different from any other woman, indeed here in the UK where I live it is law, I even have a new birth certificate.

I would not even consider the question, I am a woman.

Ice - I agree myself. I view myself as a woman, but this is a woman's space and barreling in and assuming a right to belong can be perceived as an expression of male privilege, and the point of a woman's space is to create an environment safe from that attitude and self-entitlement.

It's a touchy subject for some women, and I wanted to be respectful of that by providing them the opportunity to tell me anonymously they would not be comfortable with me here.

one of my good friends is a transgirl and I view her as female; as you can tell from that I am completely comfortable having transwomen in the woman's discussion forum

While,

although the majority are comfortable, there was a no vote, so not wishing to make anyone uncomfortable, I'll refrain from posting here.

Oh Jeez.

This is a really complicated thing, I think. The reason why it's so complicated for me is that my violent, abusive, crazy ex-husband told me shortly after out 2nd baby was born that he felt that he was a woman inside, that he wanted to live as a woman, and that he wanted to stay home with the baby and have me go to work. I was breastfeeding a newborn and recuperating from a c-section, so that was a very strange and selfish idea.

He said that he had felt that way his whole life. Well, why did he marry me without telling me then? How incredibly awful, that I pledged my life to him and bore his children and then he decides this.

To complicate things, his grandparents had told me years before that there was a person in there family that, when he was born, they thought he was a girl, and he was raised that way, until they realized he was a biy. Then he grew up and married a woman and had kids. They brought this up out of the blue. Little did I knew they meant my husband. His mom had pictures of him dressed like a girl as a baby, but she said it was just a silly thing she did.

So now I had compassion for the as*hole, because maybe he really couldn't help it. He and his whole family had still lied to me every day for years, though.

He has since told me that he has an extra chromosone and is xxy.

When this happened, I didn't know what to tell my kids or when. They almost never see him because he lives in another state and makes no effort to visit.

Even though I feel compassion for him, because growing up that way must have been just awful, can I ever consider my ex-husband, who was so mean and abusive, can I think of him as a fellow woman? In public, sure, but in a women's forum? No. Then no place is safe.

When I tried to find support when I learned about this, there were all kinds of support groups for men deciding to leave their families because they're women now, but only one for women whose husbands had announced one day that they were going to be women. That's a very big deal! He shouldn't have married and had kids with a straight lady if that's not really what he wanted.

So...I don't know you, and I feel bad for people who were trapped in the wrong body. Sincerely, I do. I wish that I could say...yeah, come on in, but that's not how I really feel. It's nothing personal toward you. But if I run into my ex-husband on the women's forums I will feel vioolated.

I am sorry. I wish I didn't feel this way.

Well I answered, but since I am transgendered, I'm not sure my opinion is truly what you are looking for.

The main reason i don't desire the ftm surgery is that its worthless junk - you get better results if you use a packy than if you go through the bottom surgery

I've never had any trouble getting guys to see me as a guy - i don't even try, it just happens. The men on my european trip picked up on it almost immediately - I was the only female they ever invited to sit down with them and do nothing while all the wives shopped

But...if you hadn't told me, I wouldn't know.

And I want to add that this doesn't mean that I have a bad opinion of you.

If you want to tell me, (If you don't, I understand) how have you dealt with stuff like that in other places?

To be honest,

This is my first foray into dealing with "woman's space".

I knew I was different from an early age, I just wasn't exactly sure how.

I've read a good deal of feminist literature, I'm acquainted with both sides of this discussion. Personally, I've never considered myself a man, however society did view me as a man, and I realize that has colored some of my perceptions. I'm mindful of that fact and try to respect others opinions when they tell me I'm abusing male priviledge. Personally, I think feminists and MtF transsexuals are fighting the same battle, the battle that Masculine and Feminine are both equal, and that people should be free to be themselves, and not forced into gender stereotypes. The contrary opinion is that because I was raised and socialized (poorly) as a male, I will never understand the feminine perspective completely. Also, it's feared that transwomen will express that dastardly "male priviledge" if allowed into woman's spaces and commandeer the momentum of the movement. Personally, I find that arguement sexist and against everything Feminism should stand for, but unfortunately there's some truth to the assertion. Transwomen can't always shake that learned sense of entitlement that comes from being raised a man.

I'm very recently out of the closet, so this is my first foray into the discussion outside of reading the various opinions on the subject.

I've never had a long term relationship with a woman because I was at least honest enough with myself to realize that it would be a lie to enter a hetero relationship with a woman.

I would enter a relationship with a woman now that I'm out as transgendered, but that's a different ball game, because there's no lying involved, it would be a lesbian relationship.

I understand your anger at your ex. Marriage and children are not something to enter into lightly, and he should have dealt with his issues before considering starting a family.

I don't say this to excuse your ex, but more as a point of reference. I think the bigger issue is the perception in our culture that somehow masculine > feminine, and people are very threatened by the concept of someone born male who would choose to give up the perceived advantages of being male. It made it very hard for me to come to terms with my own gender, and it's a common theme among transwomen that even transmen don't seem to share. (The average man isn't really threatened by a FTM, because it's natural in their mind for a woman to want to be masculine, our society almost glorifies it in terms of the business world.)

I don't care. I'm gender neutral myself, so I'm open about all people across the gender spectrum. I wish the binary gender system was eliminated.

Of course, I would welcome trans women. The lack of support that trans people get from some parts of the queer community never fails to boggle me. I mean, haven't we all been through enough? I also agree that the gender binary does more harm than good, and I'd be thrilled to see it go myself.

Guys wander in here all the time I've noticed...And if you're living your life completely and totally as a woman, then you have more "right" to be here than they do. I don't see it as a "violating/intruding into women's space" at all. As long as everyone is respectful...I have no problem with anyone being here.

(And as a side note to that, I'm on the genderqueer spectrum. I don't like the binary, and live my life as me, and if I get sir'd occasionally, oh well...but I try to be as neutral/genderdefying as possible).

Not only do I not mind you on this fourm, I would not even mind you in the restroom. I think it is cool you have the courage to be true to yourself.

I think I'll have to agree with silly rabbi on this one since men come in here as well, I don't mind at all. As far as I'm concerned this should be a safe place for people to discuss issues with their genders (but you get a few flamers every now and then) as long as you can try to be a little respectful.

I know that transgendered people all vary from degree. Not all MTF are going to think like women, not all FTM are to think like men and not all men or women are going think accordingly to their gender.