Getting ignored/patronised by males?

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This is a half rant, half question of if anyone else here has experienced the same.

Last week I was at my dad's house, and my dad and younger brother were there, and we were talking about some people who got arrested in Manchester for taking pictures of a building. I said, "That's ridiculous, now taking photos is a crime?!" and they said, "It's a fair precaution, they might have been terrorists." So I pointed out that the government has created a state of fear where everyone suspects each other of terrorism, so then Dad says, "They were Muslims!" and I said, "So? If they'd been white people nobody would have thought twice, it's systematic discrimination." Which I think was a good point, thanks very much, but then my dad and brother get all patronising about how I'm so kind and forgiving and stuff. It felt like just cos I'm a girl, they reckon I don't know what I'm talking about. FYI, I happen to know a lot more than my brother does. In the end I just left the room and let them go back to being discriminatory.

I don't care if people disagree with me, I just want them to respect me.

I am interested in a lot of subjects that are considered to be for boys. I get ignored during conversations like this when it's with males my own age as well. A few months ago the boys near me in math class (dunno how the conversation got onto communism) were like, "Bet you don't even know what communism is," as they didn't know me that well and therefore didn't realise that I have an interest in politics, so I just said, "I'm not stupid, of course I know what communism is," and I went on to prove it. They just assumed that cos I'm female I must automatically be a bimbo.

Have any of you ever been patronised by males?

I hate to relate these experiences, but before I retired, I was an aerospace engineer. Several of us female engineers shared stories of being in meetings, giving a status report or expressing a concern about an issue (in plain, succinct, unambiguous language), being given blank looks by the senior (male) engineers, then a male engineer would relate the very same thing and suddenly they all get interested. We (the females with stories) came from different departments, but all had the same experience, whether junior or senior engineers. Yes, it stinks, but I guess it is better than it was decades ago and perhaps will keep improving glacially over the coming decades. Don't want to make you bitter, but expect it to happen at least some times. However it can be much worse within your own family (they may always think of you as a "kid").

only all of my life.

(sorry, I had wanted to be supportive, but the truth won out.)

Merle

gee, I'm seeing a trend.

me too.

Oh, yeah, naturally. And never assume that the term natural means right. Too many people assume that. No, it means natural. And the dudes naturally act that way. They need their heads tenderized for it, but there it is. I get patronized by women, too, though. Nobody gets me. I'm the wind.

I once heard that you tend to get taken more seriously if you speak in a lower tone, but all that says is that for some reason people listen to a lower voice. Funny that so many of these people forget that the voice that once spoke with the greatest command for them was female.

But I don't have much experience in attempting to get taken seriously... I mean, nothing worth relating. I tend to panic in a confrontation and babble in conversation. I'd prefer people to attribute this to my personality or nerves than to consider me a silly female. To be sure, I am silly, and female, but the stereotype is insulting. Any stereotype is.

In your case, you were making an intelligent and fair-minded argument, and I'd say there's as much chance that you were treated as you were because they were the majority and secretly aware of having no solid support for their assumptions, as there was that they did it because you were female. Their arguments drew upon those traits because the most obvious difference between your two sides was sex. And they clearly don't get women. Or understand them.

i used to work in Nokia as polish speaking technical helpline for mobile phone users.. i can show you the most annoying, but very typical beginning of conversation with a MALE customer
- oh... hello!.. CAN I TALK TO A TECHNICIAN??
- me thinking *and why do you think i answered your phone on TECHNICAL helpline* - Yes, what's your problem sir?
- er... woman technican?...

and so on... but i think this is not only the AS problem, NT women who have skills for technology may also experience similar thing.

Ooooh yes.

A recent example would be this male electrician I was chatting with. I had planned to set up extra lighting for my houseplants (would have to chop up some wires and connect them right, buy correct parts and stuff) and had read about the subject a lot but had no experience with electrics stuff. There was one thing I was unsure about and thought he would be the perfect person to ask about it. We had a long pointless talk in which he just kept dancing around the subject and refused to answer me. "It's really dangerous, get a professional to do it" was all I got.

I thought, wow, I guess I studied for nothing, I must be really stupid.

Then I went home and spent a couple of hours reading and when I was sure I had taken everything that could go wrong into account I went and built my little CFL setup and it worked perfectly ever since. In fact I secured everything so well it's probably safer than what I could buy from a store. It was the simplest thing ever!! !!

Oh, wait. I'm a short, blonde female. It should be obvious. I can't possibly know anything. What an *******.

I've always been bullied by both men and women.

Men can be very condescending as women yet I hardly ever see a board by a female complaining about ever being ignored or bullied by a guy. Usually it's guys that're attracted to them.

And I thought it was just me which is why I rarely ever bring this topic up since girls don't seem to bring it up.

when I was a computer technician for Gateway, Inc, I would get those calls. I relished those calls because I always cheerily asked them if they wanted to speak to my supervisor. When they said "Yes!" I blythefuly informed them that I would get HER on the phone!

Once, and this was back when we did long, drawn out and complicated DOS configuring to get dial up modems to work in laptop computers (if you don't know what DOS is, then you know how ancient this technology was!) The guy had talked to several technicians and I could see the notes of who had helped him and what they had tried to do to facilitate the issue. I saw pretty quickly that that specific modem had a different parsing code and no one had caught it, but it being one of those niggling little things I had noticed and retained as just a point of interest in my brain, I eagerly let him know to parse it thus and so! The man was furious! how could I know that when all those other guys didn't? He gave me some very un-politically correct opinions bordering on the obscene before he slammed the phone down.

and after the call, although I was not immune to his sexist beration, my main concern was to check on his notes for the next few days to see if he ever got his issue corrected. My vigilance paid off and some two weeks later I saw someone had noted they had used the same parsing code that I had told him weeks earlier and finally got his modem to work.

I got a million of 'em.

Merle

Oh heck yeah. All the time. A lot of men assume the chick behind the counter doesn't know anything - to the extent that they'll ask "I need help. Is the guy here?"

He helps them with the brainless can't-you-read-the-onscreen-instructions questions (which irritate me), but sends them straight to me if they have actual problems.

Sometimes I think I'm a bit oversensitive about being patronised .

Strangers/ work colleagues etc just plain make me mad. I rant for a bit, then i'm over it. However, it's the sort of insidious "friendly" patronage from people who alledgedly like you I find particularly soul destroying...I mean, is it a subtle sign they despise you? Do they not know they are doing it? At what point do you call them out over it? If it's by a man, is it a display of unacknowledged but ingrained chauvinism?

And this excludes the obvious AS things...I'm officially diagnosed, but only tell people who "should" know something about ASDs...or have it themselves. So being patronised by your peers I find even more hard to understand.

About AS, do you find that we/they come accross as condescending to others without knowing it?

As this is a current bee in my bonnet, any responses would help (via PM too if you dont want to post here)

Thanks in advance

I actually find I'm patronized more by other women. Or, at least, it feels more patronizing. It's hard to explain. The times that I do notice men 'talking down' to me, it's usually in a patient way as if they don't really expect me to understand, but at the same time are perfectly alright with that and have no problem with explaining. The way that I experience most (not all, but most) women doing it I find insulting. They're talking to me as if they both think I'm stupid and are disgusted by the fact.

The impression I get is that men are concerned with communicating the facts clearly: they just want to make sure the person understands so that things will be done right. Women try to make it personal. The tone of voice begins to resemble that used to a five year old. Lots of faux-friendly eye contact and little smiles. "Are you alright with that? Mm?" Ugh. Very creepy.

getting ignored/patronised by men ? Oh, part of the story of my life.. why that behaviour ? Still, I don't know for sure.

Yes I have been patronised on many occasions. It is almost like some automatically believe you are intellectually inferior to them and have to put you down in your place.
Not all of them are like this. I tend to avoid contact with people who are negative, It is not good for the psyche.

I have learned that I can come across as condescending without at all intending to. A sister has gone so far as to call me "arrogant" and saying I talk down to others, which cuts like a knife because I'm just trying to be helpful or, in some instances, not come unglued due to the tense nature of my reactions.

I do think it's true that women in general experience patronizing responses, especially when they are discussing technical, mechanical issues. I get the "can I speak to your husband?" question from service guys quite a bit. I just tell them I'm the mechanical one (which I am) and that he isn't into details (which he isn't).

As far as being patronized, I think it happens a lot to Aspies because we tend to assimilate information more quickly than NTs.

Last edited by elancee on 01 Jun 2009, 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OH yes. Like all my life. By my boyfriend (now EX) even though I was smarter than him. And by my brother. It's like they wouldn't even talk to me unless they could be the expert. I often have to play dumb to get by but it really rankles.

And by a female friend (now also EX) who liked to try and find reasons to look down on me.