anti-vaccine thinking led to murder of 3 yr old by mother

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I don't think that people who believe in mercury theories are stupid or crazy or (necessarily, on their own, in other ways) dangerous.

I do think they're wrong though, and that the theories and their application are often dangerous, and that people, including Autism Diva, know a lot of the evidence for that.

I also know that people on both sides of any debate tend to resort to irrational points now and then, including calling people on the other side stupid or crazy or dangerous. It's not right, but it happens.

There are a whole lot of societal factors that contribute to murders such as this, and those exert influence over someone who's already poised to do something very wrong, I've gone over those in my other post. (I'm not going to say mentally unstable because I don't know her and even if she was it doesn't mean that's why she did this.) I don't happen to think the mercury thing is one of them though, I think it's a result of some (but not all) of the same factors. She could just as easily have turned out to be an ABA fanatic or something else.

But I don't think Autism Diva is somehow wrong or propagandistic about everything related to this, just because she happens to be wrong about this one thing. I hope that people reading this hoping for a point to use against her other more rational arguments, don't forget that.

Thats sensationalist crap. I dont care if its true. Your trying to take a story, much like the media (coincidence?) and bend it for your own (Lilly?) agenda. POOR BEAUTIFUL AUTISTIC LITTLE KATIE was killed with a plastic bag by the terrible anti-vaccine people...and you're demonizing people who demand answers about what the hell happened to them. if you too are dealing with autism, maybe you would demand answers as well, instead of willfully attempting to supply them.

Okay... so the first post is irrational, but accusing someone of being part of Eli Lilly just because they disagree with you isn't!? And, for that matter, anyone "really" dealing with autism would agree with you? That's even more unlikely than the original post.

CONSTANT pro-vaccine! all that is on here from "autism diva" is pro-vaccine, and venomous towards people who arent. Thats all.

I understand you Bert. I don't know whether she works for Eli Lilly but it wouldn't surprise me. I used to believe authorities like teachers and the government. I think some people assume the government and drug companies don't lie and assume the few who disagree are either quacks or crazy. It bothers me that this story is being used to support the pro-vaccine agenda. It's sad what happened but I'm sure her beliefs regarding vaccination had nothing to do with it.

guys lets not start a lot of arguments/debate in this thread, save that for PP/R forum...

Yes. Katie was killed. She's dead no matter who your paranoia makes you think autism_diva works for.

i have no comment... though i say this thread be locked in memorandium

I don't know who's tarnishing Bert Blyleven's good name, but whoever it is is an idiot.

LOL, the resident conspiracy nut arrives!

I don't know if you and Bert were hired by Homer, Conway, and Chin-Caplan, but it wouldn't surprise me if you were.

How do you like being accused of being a shill? I suppose that you don't like it. I don't like it either, so cut it out. It's abusive.

Vaccines save lives. People who try to get others to hate vaccines put people's lives in danger, including the lives of autistic people who can die from vaccine preventable disease as easily as anyone else, more easily if you think that they have poor immune systems (I don't think that, but some do).

Katie's mother named vaccines IN court in her defense. Hello You don't think vaccines in her thinking had anything to do with the murder???

In this case Katie's mother was a good friend, I'm not making this up, she was a good friend of David Ayoub, who showed up at Katie's funeral, even. Ayoub sells the story that autism is only caused by vaccines, and that at the root of the vaccine/autism thing are an evil bunch of part-reptilian aliens known as the Illuminati. I'm not making this up. I'm not sensationalizing it. These are the facts. Ayoub explains his Illuminati antivax beliefs on video and in documents that are on the web.

If Karen McCarron was gullible or whatever she was she could think that her normal daughter had been replaced by some kind of monster created by monsters.

See? That's not sensationalizing, that's how it could have happened easily. If McCarron thought that her daughter was not even human, maybe thinking her daughter was somehow monster like the Illuminati are supposed to be, then it would make it easier to kill her.

And parents who see their kids as empty shells and poisoned and ruined are more likely to take drastic steps of various kinds to "get their real kid back" or maybe more likely to harm or abandon their child. This seems quite obvious to me.

I think it's pretty heartless and disgusting to be using this little girl as political fodder. Funny, isn't it, how every tie there's some atrocity, people are always trying to jockey it to lean in favour of their beliefs? Sorry if you're offended, but that was a brutal, visceral post, gruesome, and about the horrible murder of a child.

And you're being an ambulance chaser, using a little girl's death to promote your opinions and beliefs against those you see as wrong, to portray them as nothing more than bad parents, people believing in absurdities, and lunatics.

And even more disgusting, you use her death as an excuse to bring up another person who's been killed, and to put them side by each to represent something abou their death. What your post says to me; The people who are against vaccines have a line of thinking which allows for them to reason out killing autistics.

The whole thing reads to me as nothing more than scrabbling up a political hill over the bodies of the dead. Their deaths are being used for personal gains, and this, to my beliefs, is wrong. You should be ashamed that you would stoop so low, to six feet under, in order to attack a group of people on the actions of one person, with the body of the person that she, not anyone else, killed.

i hate how people turn everything EVERYTHING into a f*****g political argument...

One thing Ive figured out regarding empathy is that is impossible to kill another human in good conscious. Soldiers have it drilled into them that the other people are "the enemy". It helps them because they arent killing people but they are killing enemies. For a normal person to get to the point that they killed another like this means their mental state was so bad that woman did not view that child as fully human. However I would be sure she would have enormously terrible guilt using the vaccines and autism thing as justification to ease the guilt.

In the eyes of the law its tricky. Its murder but that woman would not be in a healthy mental state. She may have some problem and will definitely need counselling. However it doesnt excuse her actions. In this sense the mind is a tricky thing. How much free will do we really have? Anyway other angle is that for her to get to such a bad mental state means there must have been a long period of signs of her getting there that would have become extremely apparent prior to the incident. Then she sees loonies like that, it really does not help at all.

It would be a legal nightmare to lay blame but I can see it being that mother would be the one to cop the big punishment.

I think it's pretty heartless and disgusting to ACCUSE anyone of using her as political fodder.