AS as a Crutch?

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I thought that was your last post.



It's not fiction, and if you can't accept it, that's your problem. I don't want to agree with you, and I'm glad I don't. There are aspects that are normal; that's how it goes. It's not discrimination in any single way; I did not say that normal was above abnormal in any single way. If I said normal was better than abnormal it would be discrimination; use your words correctly.



Then don't you dare speak for me. None of my suggestions involve lying. I don't know where you're pulling that out from, but quite frankly, you need to stop. I don't advertise lying in any form. Talking about your strengths and your capabilities is not lying, unless you have none.

You will find, that if you accuse me of things falsely, I do not sit there and think, ok. So, since you've all ready stated you won't allow me to respond to your accusations in private, I'll do it here. That is the one thing that will set me off, and you have crossed the line. You don't want to read it? Fine, everyone can read it.

You do not have to lie in order to convince people that you have strengths unless you have none. You have to go to job application after job application after job application and tell them that you're good at this, this and this - I don't what you're good at, but let's pretend you're good at math; if you're not good at math, fill it in with whatever you are good at it. Show them how your skills in that area will make you a benefit to the company even if your social skills aren't he best. Lo and behold, the entire world does not revolve around social settings; there's always going to be people, but in some jobs, the contact in minimum.

No one said that you have to enjoy a job to have it either. Most people, at least, can continue to go and do tasks that they don't enjoy. It would be unrealistic to think that all employers require you to love your job. There doesn't have to be love for it in some of the more simple jobs, like cleaning and manual labor; you may not love the job, but it's something to hold you over while you search for others.

If you honestly have no skills or capabilities that can outweigh your social functioning, then no one can help you.



I'm advocating focusing on your strengths to secure a job. I am advocating living up to your potential in other areas of skill. I am not telling you to go in there and convince people that your social skills are perfect or even good. I am not lying by stating the fact of impairment, because by definition, we are socially impaired. I am not setting back understandings at all; if anything, I'm trying to further what people can do by recognizing their talents, while you're telling them to sit back and wait for everyone else to understand, which isn't going to work in time for quite a few.



That's wonderful; until you sent this, you didn't make me sick to my stomach, but now you do. You have no right to tell me to stop talking to you after you've sent a barrage of insults and accusations. My realism appears to be a lot more real. I'm relatively positive you don't speak for all Australians either, thank God.

And since I'm not allowed to defend myself there - which is, by the by, where I would have prefer to do this, seeing how it doesn't concern everyone else - I will damn well defend myself here. You brought the extra viewers upon yourself.

I am more than positive he does not speak for Australians, or autistic people, or people with Asperger's , or sensible, sane, rational people.

You entered a debate with him and disagreed with his points of view and refused to accept what anyone, with two brain cells to rub together, would view as realistic. Who started making this personal? Who started being personal? Who started using this as a springboard to a moral agenda? Who started sending nasty PM's? Who is using their righteous indignation to alleviate their responsibility to act decently - the well trotted out line of "I am acting in self-defence". Who packed up their toys and ran home when they realised you were not intimidated by them?

That's right TLPG.

For the record

"And just quickly - I have read Selo's posts, and it is my firm opinion that they were written by an adult. If she really is 14 - you lot are going to have to provide me with much more evidence that just your word! Frankly I find it hard to believe."

evidence should be PMed to me.

Rubbish TLPG. WE do not have to prove a bloody thing. You did the wrong thing and are not enough of a human, little lone man to accept responsibility for flaming a 14 yr old. Bloody idiot!

And further, if I HAD figured she was 14 - I would never have written that entry.

No you have a history of picking on teenagers why would this now be abhorrent to you? That righteous court win? How old was that kid? That guy who you "sent" your friends to attack his blog to "somehow" prove he could not cope with NT stress in workplace situations? How old was he? How old are you and how old were the friends you sent to harass, bully and intimidate him? Yeah you like picking on teenagers.


BUT - if it is true, then I will remove that post on my blog. As far as an apology goes, Selo will have to indicate a willingness to accept one via PM, because it's between her and me.

TLPG removing it will not make up for the malicious slander and smearing of a 14 yr olds name on a public blog. What the f**k is a private apology going to do to amend the public wrong? You are so egotistical and righteous you make us sick to our stomach. If my daughter at 14 had a run-in like the type that you gave Selo I would be out for blood. Selo "doesn't have to to accept anything from you, you arrogant sod.

Unfortunately YOU see yourself as right, reasonable, honest, rational, smart and decent. You are none of these things. It is evident to all around you here and you hold on to this weird self-image so out-of-touch with reality. You are a zealot. A fanatic. An extremist. A reactionary. A nasty, bitter, poisonous, spiteful piece of work.

I used to think I would but then it's like I'm entirely discounting who I am and thinking of myself and my personality only as a disorder. When applying for apartments I ask for absolutely silent apartments because I have mild autism which makes me sensitive to noise but not in every day interaction, no. I'm a little conflicted though, because I've done so many things when I was younger that, looking back, was ENTIRELY A.S.,and I want to explain to these people (many of whom were important to me), what it was, but then it seems like making excuses. Some people just suck or are jackasses and some people have disorders...this is the hand I was dealt so I don't want to take advantage of it, even though I know that's not what I'd be doing.

This thread is a few days old now, but I'm just popping in because I saw the scuffle about my age going on between TLPG and a couple other users here.

Though I don't type like a middle-school girl and I'm more opinionated than most, I am 14 - just turned it a couple weeks ago. You want proof, you got it:


That photo is like three minutes old. I promise.

Also, I am willing to accept a PM from TLPG to sort out the whole argument lately.

Oh, don't worry about it. I've had much, much worse happen to me on the internet before.

I don't see my Aspieness as a crutch, more of a means that signifies I'm different from everyone else and tend to do things in a more unorthodox manner but, neverless I'm still human despite my differences..

Because I wasn't posting on this thread again, I missed an important point - and not only that Selo has posted about the issue of her age, so again I have to break my promise of earlier on this thread.

He actually wrote "unfit for employment". The full quote is "Therefore I consider this person unfit for employment" (after rattling off a number of points given to him by the employer who called him in - and biased points at that).

As far as publishing my PM goes - that just proved how out of touch you are with the real world of the Aspie. You don't understand it beyond your own experience because you haven't sought to. I have, because I made it my business to. And that's how I know how our weaknesses are being exploited - something that you refuse to accept because you haven't experienced it.

So take your view and shove it.



Sir Les AKA Rossc has been banned because he has a personal agenda against me. I'll reveal that now to get it out of the way. He thinks he knows what I'm doing and is trying everything under the sun to discredit me. My view is that this is because he fears me - and for no good reason really. I never sought to speak for anyone who can speak for themselves.

I'll explain the root of the problem - I've made no secret of the fact that I am trying to set up a committee enquiry by the Australian Federal Government into the issues of adult Aspies. Ross is assuming I'm going to go in there and talk about everyone. No, that is not true. Once the committee is set up - all Australian adult Aspies will in fact be encouraged to speak for themselves. I consider that crucial to giving the Government the maximum exposure to the vast differences life experience has on Aspies. Ranging from those who have found their niche (people like RainSong), through people like me who have had bad work place experiences and been caught up in the system, to people who have never worked or had any life experience outside their own family (and they do exist). The trouble is because our experiences clash - that's the root of the issue between me and RainSong and I wish she would have recognised that - it's impossible to get some sort of advocacy going. So I'm going in alone armed with that information and get the committee going, and that ONLY. Beyond that, Ross is welcome to participate and speak for himself.

Now just to clear something up - he has also accused me of constantly attacking teenagers. Aside from Selo (which I'll address in a moment) he was also referring to Joeker, and a young lout who stalked me on the Internet for two years by the name of David Ayling. I advise that this is a RARITY. The majority of people I have blasted are adults - so this is another cheap shot. Also - in the case of Ayling - I wasn't the only person having trouble with him. He was stalking a number of other people as well, including three people I would class as celebrities. I was simply the first one to have enough evidence to deal with him. There are a number of hair raising stories I could tell about that twit believe me!

Selo - this may well flatter you but you look older than 14. Really, you do look at least 18, probably 20 would have been my estimate. I'm not saying that I don't believe you and you are trying and that's appreciated. I'm going through the posts I've missed while I've been offline due to a house move so I won't get the chance to PM you straight away. I am happy for you to PM me if you want to comment on my statement here to get the ball rolling and to remind me.

Not as a crutch, but maybe as an explanation of why I don't understand something that other people find completely obvious and they think I'm just pretending not to understand to be annoying. I would also use it as a reason why I'm not very good socially, though of course I try to be as nice and friendly as possible.

I'd never use it as a reason for bad behavior. I think there's a difference in someone using something like AS or social anxiety as a reason why they're not as good at something even though they're trying to do their best and trying to learn things, and just not trying and saying it's because of a syndrome. If someone was blind, say, and could do something a sighted person could do but not as quickly or in a different way, if someone asked them why they were doing it that way, they'd say they couldn't see and were doing it by touch. They wouldn't be making an excuse, but stating a fact.

Aspies are never probably going to be as sociallly adept as many NT's because of not inherently understanding social cues, but that doesn't mean we can't learn social cues by rote. But if a new situation comes up, we might not understand it and NT's may wonder why not because we seem OK in other situations and we're intelligent. If the NT's are making a huge fuss about why the Aspie didn't do X in that situation as almost any NT would have, I don't see anything wrong with explaining about having AS, then using the situation as a learning opportunity for next time.

Hopefully not--that would be clearly wrong. Once the person learned what was rude or that a certain type of behavior was rude, AS or no they should stop doing it. But sometimes things aren't clear. Some people may consider certain things rude that others don't. Even NT's have trouble navigating this sometimes.

I agree with TLPG about the concept of "normal," What is considered "normal" is a social construct, it has no objective existance. In the context of human diversity the terms "normal" and "abnormal" are value judgments placed upon groups of human individuals, human individuals that each unique genetically and unique in life experiences; with the exact boundaries of the "normal/abnormal" dichotomy being culturally defined. 100 years ago left-handedness was considered "abnormal" and "impaired" and nobody stopped to think that it was the fact that a lot of things were designed with only right-handed people in mind that caused left-handed people to be "impaired." Same with with the social "impairment" we are considered to have, we are only impaired because NTs refuse to accommodate differences and instead force NT social rules on us because such socially constructed social rules are deemed "normal" and part of a unitary, essentialistic "human nature."

I also have concerns about employment, I get help from job-coaches because I am unable to hold a McJob on my own. I am extremely concerned that if an employer sees THAT on my resume he/she will probably ignorantly assume that since I can't hold a McJob I can't hold any other job either.

I think I understand one thing that TLPG is getting at, and why he might not be able to get a job. If I'm understanding him correctly, people in Australia must have to disclose any diagnosed conditions such as AS either when they go for a job interview, or when they're on the point of being hired. Or there is some government record that can be and is accessed by employers when they're trying to hire anyone, that will state if the person has a diagnosis. (Please correct me, TLPG, if I'm wrong in this assumption.)

If my assumption is correct, then may I say, TLPG, that this would be something worth fighting against and rallying other people to fight against in your country, and I wish you all the luck in doing this. Things like an AS diagnosis that may not affect how you do in a given job, should not have to be disclosed--there should be some kind of privacy act to prevent that, as well as some kind of anti-discrimination laws. In the US for instance, you only have to disclose something like AS if you want to. If you're a diagnosed Aspie here, and you're going for a job where you have the skills and great social skills aren't needed, not only would there be no point in disclosing your AS diagnosis, but it would not be required.

If I'm completely off base here please let me know.

Can I ask how David stalked you? What was he doing to you?
I don't know what went on between you and Joeker but I assume it was on AFF?

You aren't wrong at all, Norah. Yes, we do have to disclose any condition that may affect any aspect of the job you are applying for. If we don't and it is discovered later the employer has the right to sack the person pretty much on the spot. Full disclosure of relevant details are required. My file with the Commonwealth Medical Officer can be accessed with my permission, but if I don't give it then the automatic assumption is that I'm hiding something.



I've already suffered one loss in court - because the employer who used the CMO DX to kick me out had the case thrown out as frivilous. That only happened because it was me (on my own) against a government employed full blown solicitor (attorney to you) who knew all the loopholes and exploited them.

But I am certainly fighting this situation, and the key to it is cleaning up my CMO file - getting rid of that report and a couple of other things that shouldn't be in there as well (such as a pre AS DX report from 1990). Once that is disposed of I can start the road back into the work force - and it will be a hard one because my routine at present is keyed to not working and I can't change that with the proverbial snap of the fingers.

I'll leave the Joeker issue alone because he's a member here - I'll just say that AFF had only a small part to play in it and leave it there.

With Ayling, it was a case of wherever I was on the Internet within the wrestling community in Australia - there he was abusing the heck out of me. He abused me on MSN (using more than one ID chasing me), trying multiple times to join my old forum when he was told to stay away, he turned up on every other forum I joined or was a member of - and he threatened me multiple times on places like Live Journal when I had an account there. Heck - he even showed up on the forum of a US wrestler when I joined it! This went on unabated for two years, until I finally put the brakes on it with a restraining order.

It was as though I couldn't go anywhere on the Internet within the wrestling community without running into his abuse and threats.

And as stated I wasn't the only one. I know for a fact that several people were delighted when I served him, and one was prepared to be in court just to watch the idiot squirm!

My actions well and truly silenced him, and it was an immense relief believe me! He's out of the wrestling community completely now and it served him right. I truly believe he never knew I would do what I did.

Wow, I wonder where he knew to find you? username search on google?

Was he from Australia too? If not, how did they deal with him in another country?
Did you had to go to the local police first to report him and they had take it from there by calling other police (I don't now what you call them there but here in the USA we call it the FBI) or call the police in the country he is in?

I think the important thing is that you don't use AS as an excuse to behave with complete disregard to what makes people feel offended or uncomfortable, or to get away with not going anywhere in life (I've been guilty of the latter). As long as you're making a conscious effort to do the right thing, it's okay to occasionally use AS as an explanation for why you behave a certain way. Let's face it, no matter how hard I try and how many strides I make, there's always going to be something "off" about my personality and approach to life, and there will always be awkward and uncomfortable moments. That's when the explanation will come in handy.

My general approach is to acknowledge that I'm different and that I will never be able to entirely shake that off, but there are still ways to work around it and do my best to get along with people. This is in contrast to two girls I've dated that have similar personalities, but one uses her ADHD/bipolar diagnosis as a crutch while the other just flat-out refuses to admit that there's anything off-putting about her behavior. (And it just so happens that they hate each other.) I think it's important to find a happy medium between those two extremes.