Lorenzo's Oil for Autism

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No - that's you. Not us.

I doubt autism is caused by a weakened immune system. I'd say it's more likely that the weakened immune system is caused by autism. An autistic person is likely under constant stress, just from living in the world, and stress weakens the immune system. The resulting health problems could then make the person act more autistic, because the health problems will take energy, thus leaving less energy available for dealing with the world.

yet, you could not resist responding. Look, I know you have put in a lot of effort and energy to form your views. I know you have invested time and learned about your subject. Dave and TLPG forget you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar ( and watch, they well ask me why I would want to catch flies, anyway! right guys. .you thought about it, didn't you but I beat you to it!)

but my point is. not everything has a bogeyman in the bushes, not everything is a conspiricy theory. You certainly have the right to your opinion, but when it misinforms people looking for hard scientific evidence, it becomes a community problem.

I am sure someone has pointed that out to you before, too. Hence the 'controversy' continues.

all the best,

Merle

They are both talking about lead poisoning and making fun at the idea that it leads to autism. The problem is no one is claiming that lead poisoning is causing autism. I think they both know that it's mercury, not lead, that researchers are worried about. And the mercury thing is NOT a conspiracy. Mercury amalgams were used because gold was expensive and nothing else they tried worked as good. Thimerosal is used because it's a preservative. Same thing with lead. It made paint durable. I don't think they used it to purposely harm people but again no one claims it causes autism.

They're being ironic to illustrate the point about cancer.

Ah, but elemental mercury was widely used since at least the Middle Ages for all sorts of things, from making hats to rich people dipping their bare hands in it just for fun (for that matter I knew people that played with mercury as kids and no, they're not autistic) - yet the claim is that somehow it was only until modern vaccines that autism appeared, because of ethyl mercury (which unlike elemental mercury does not bioaccumulate, but that seems too subtle a point for conspiracy theorists). If it was mercury, then autism rates would be at historical lows.
Oh, and of course cancer wasn't such a problem before - people usually died of TB, diphteria, syphilis, tetanus, etc before they had time to die of cancer or heart disease. Anyone that knows anything about the hsitory of medicine and disease knows that.
Auto-immune diseases and allergies are partially genetic, so it is perfectly possible for any correlation between immune anomalies and autism (if such a correlation exists) to be genetic, as the evidence is that autism is mainly genetic. Stress and other environmental factors not related to vaccines may also play a role, as someone here has suggested.

Thank you, Wolfpup, you beat me to it - and I'll add that the sarcasm was in full bloom as well. We know full well what the true conspiracy is. Seems that Zendell can't take a joke.

Apparently Vulcans are not the only ones who find humor a difficult concept.

zendude I refer you to the collected works of Monty Python and Rowan Atkinson for a primer course. youtube.com is a good resource since I know you like doing research on the internet....

Once you have a solid grounding I would suggest moving on to more in depth works such as the collected works of Jonathan Swift. Please note, he was not SERIOUS about the English fattening up Irish babies and eating them. If you study hard, you will see the humor. I realize most American's have been deprived having been served a never ending diet of "Adam Sandler/Jim Carey/Ben Stiller" so called comedies. Most of those are more slapstick than actual comedy. Go back to the source material, watch the Monty Python, read some Terry Pratchett, or for more domestic consumption, dig up a copy of "Bored of the Rings" by Harvard Lampoon. If you try VERY hard, you will get the why they refer to the balrog from the original books as the "ballhog"...... "You Shall Not PASS!! !!"... think about it.

And yes, Merle, I responded. It amused me. I found it funny. Apparently some others did as well. I do not use honey to catch flys, I use a bugzapper. Some share my sense of humor, others don't, such is life. If I offend I'm sure I will hear of it. If I truly offend here I will go away and this place will be a trifle darker.

You guys are pretty expressive of your own opinions, which have even less proof than him. "Everyone" is not a person, it's a generalization. Generalizations have no place as being valid arguments any more than "your mom" does.

You've had your says about Autism and what you believe about it; Let others share their thoughts.

Merle, Zendell has provided scientific evidence, and stated his opinion. Has Zendell told yo that you're mis-informing people, that what you believe is wrong? He has given his opinions, and you mock him for it, while you offer your opinions, and are not. Isn't that unfair?

How would you feel if you were being told that Autism being genetic is bogus, that there's no evidence to prove it, that anyone who thinks that it is must be a conspiracy theorist, that you're misinforming people with your opinion, that everyone thinks differently from you, and that you're wrong, wrong wrong.

If you are going to express opinions, you have to make allowances for dissenting views. Science never got anywhere by silencing all but one school of thought. Just look at what happened with the church and the world is flat. It stifled free thought, kept people in the dark, and was supported by people who weren't willing to see anything but what they wanted to see, people who were firm in their beliefs, and mocked and ridiculed any dissent. Why is it happening here?

Why do you react so strongly, and so negatively? How would you feel in that position, to not be judged on the veracity of your beliefs, but because others simply refuse to consider those beliefs seriously?

Are you implying that Monty Python and Rowan Atkinson aren't funny? I think there's plenty of evidence they are.

Whatever, I'm turning off my light on the way out... it was a florescent so don't drop it and you know, loose the evil mercury upon a helpless world or anything....

please point out where I mocked. I would like to apologize for mocking. I do not mock intentionally.

thank you

Merle

You disarded his views as being without substance, like static on a television. It was the way you wrote your response. You spoke down, as though his opinion was just a minor thing. You included a bunch of negative concepts when stating things, like conspiracy theory, misinformation, bogeyman... and discarded the evidence he's provided in other threads as being without merit.

I'm sure you didn't want to mock him intentionally, and I can understand why you said what you did. But his opinons deserve the same consideration as anyone else.

AspieDave, I'd rather try to cross the Bridge of Death, or defend myself against a horde of fruit-wielding maniacs than deny the comedic genius of Monty Python.

Why is it that whenever someone doesn't think Autism is 100%, absolutely, fully and completely caused by genetics, that they must be of one point of view, and that's that they believe that Mercury did it? There's more than Genetics and Mercury, you know, and who says that the symptomology of each disorder on the spectrum is all stemming from one cause? They've got hundreds of causes for cancer, and all the different types of cancer; Though I'm not saying that Autism is a disease, but making a comparison of how there can be more than one cause for anything.

I don't know what causes Autism, and I think people should stop trying to put a hexagonal block into a triangular hole. The ony proven case where it was proven that Autism was genetic occurs in less than one percent of autistics. When the numbers are higher, I'll put more faith into it; But at this point in time, we're taking a speculation as fact, which is pretty short-sighted.
Look how the church did with a flat earth. Many a ship lost at sea was said to have sailed off the edge of the world, or was claimed by a Kraken or other monster from the deeps. It's similar effects, being attributed to something else entirely. Like cats, rats, and the plague. Rats carried the plague, and the cats would catch the rats. They saw so many cats, and thought that the cats were causing it, and so they killed the cats.

I for one am welcome to all discussion, all opinions of the causes of Autism. But I generally dislike it when people decide that they don't like certain beliefs, and try to stifle their opinions, mock them, discard their opinions, or make them out to be crazy. If you want to present that Autism is genetic, and give reasons, and make points, you've got the right to do so, and you're more than welcome to present your views. But to mock, taunt, and belittle someone because you think their views aren't as good as your own, that is unacceptable.

They have as much right as you do to say what you think about Autism. They deserve the same freedom to express their opinions without the mockery and jeers that people have been directing at them. Do others jeer and mock your beliefs that Autism is genetic, and make snide remarks?

I respect your opinion. I only wish you could return the gesture.

Because it is about people and their lives. Using therapies that are unproven, or which have not been proven just well enough, can put children's health at serious risk. It can also give leeway for charlatans to make money off a "therapy" which they may know in advance not to work (or to be overly dangerous), and for parents who are either too desperate and/or too selfish to go ahead and use these "therapies" on their children regardless of the consequences. For one, I am afraid that this is already taking place.

It is not about something so vague and abstract as beliefs - it is about people, LIVING PEOPLE, and one's attitude towards them.

At least, it is so for me, I don't know about what anyone else thinks about this.

However, I agree that nobody should be put down or ridiculed because of their opinions.

I'll keep this post short and sweet. Speaking for myself - I regard anyone who denies the long established fact that Autism is genetic in origin, and further relies on junk science to contradict it is worthy of ridicule. And in the case of Zendell there are other factors attached (such as the claim that cancer didn't exist 100 years ago - which is in the same vein as claiming Autism didn't exist before 1931).

Now if the mods disagree with this, please let us all know.

No doubt cancer has existed since the beginning of time, and no doubt it has increased exponentially in the modern era. That's hardly controversial.

In an ideal world, noone would ever express a thought or opinion without knowing their stuff inside out, and noone would ever dismiss another person's thoughts and opinions without interest and respect.

Oh ideal world, where art thou? *stands on tall mountain, shading eyes, vainly searching horizon*

I don't think people who have no experience, knowledge or interest of/in alternative medicine and treatments realize how frustrating it is to have everything across the board dismissed as quackery. I have ten years experince of it (not professional) and I credit it with my survival. I don't listen to quacks, I KNOW ENOUGH TO AVOID THEM. The responsibility is on patients/parents to educate themselves and check their doctors' credentials whether they are dealing with alternative or allopathic medicine.

I'd need to see proof that Cancer has increased at all, let alone exponentially. The only way that seems possible is if you're counting that people live longer.

And there is SO MUCH dangerous psudeoscience out there, and IMO it shouldn't be tolerated. It isn't safe, and it detracts from people getting real help. (Not to mention how infuriating it is to see people believing in magic...)