Does the thought of BEHAVIORAL treatment make you twitch?

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Ana54, some form of behavioral therapy is a huge part of Early Intervention for young spectrum children and it can be very effective. The goal is to give them lifetime tools to manage certain behaviors, including anxiety in public, stimming, ticks, tantrums, lack of focus, lack of social skills, obsessive compulsive behavior, perseverations, etc... Behavioral therapies tackle all of these things and many are tailored to the child's specfic needs.

In my son's program, all of the kids get Applied Behavior Analysis. Some of the kids are doing so well that you'd never know they had Autism. The ABA isn't about changing who they are as people. It's about getting them to manage or cope with certain behaviors that get in the way of their fuctioning.

I think Asperger kids could benefit from these programs as well, but schools, public services and insurers won't cover it. It's very expensive and a committment.

Edited to add: What I like most about it is that it is a non-medical way to treat these behaviors and thanks to it, many parents can forgo the drug route to treating certain behaviors. Of course, it depends on the child and severity, but I know many people who were able to bypass medication.

Anxiety is a feeling, not a behavior. It often manifests itself in behaviors.


Raptor, I understand you 100% and feel the exact same way. It's not just about them and how we want to keep them from getting annoyed with us stimming or whatever. It's lso about us and how it bothers us to have to restrain ourselves. We're human beings too.

Ana54, that may be true. But, ABA helps kids manage it. My own kid couldn't deal with crowds, fairs, theatres, parks or anything like that before ABA. Totally out of control, over-stimulated, anxiety through the roof. You name it. ABA helped him function in these environments. And, it did it without the use of medication.

Let me tell you, kids who get any form of behavior mod are treated as people. 20-30 years ago, things were different. I cringe when I read stories from back then. But, these programs are heavily regulated and the companies that adminster them are pretty reputable. You may find a bad apple now and then. You have to see it in motion and see the results before you knock it.

But, again, we're talking Autism. Aspies may not like something they think will change the core of who they are. But, many parents of Auties welcome tools that allow their kids to function just like any other kid.

Anyway, I'm not trying to force behavior mod on anyone or get into a fight or anything. I'm just telling you, tens of thousands of Auties kids across this country are in Behav Mod programs as we speak and they're really helping. Behav Mod is one of the most important aspects of intervention programs for those who qualify.

but the point is does your kid WANT to be modified?

if they do,then its all fine and dandy.

if they don't, and don't assume they do, do go in to there personal time and go "you WANT" to do this.

God dammit.

I had to do a freaking class...and it was for BABIES.i was young back then,but i hated it.


I dislike how much people focus"but you have to please OTHER people but you have to please OTHER people but you have to please OTHER people but you have to please OTHER people!"

If they're so tight-assed about stupid rules like " don't twirl your pen!its NOT HEALTHY!", then they aren't worth pleasing in the first place.

as for jobs,people might have trouble, but aren't bosses supposed to like honesty?
god dammit!

Wow Ana, thanks for bringing this up. :O It's truely disturbing what people are trying to do and expect from Aspies.

Demoluca, first if I understood your post, maybe I could better answer it. You mentioned a class. Are you saying you had Behav Mod in a class?

Before starting a program it has to be determined it's needed when it comes to a minor. The people who make that determination are generally a team of people, not just one. The input to start ours included input from our Neurologist, OT, ST, PT, ABAT, Pedi (who has Autism in her practice), teachers, district officials and a Psyche brought in for an evaluation. Hard to believe, but this is not common. These are all the people that are part of an Early Intervention program. This is what Early Intervention is all about.

I digressed. The point I was making is that Behav Mod. was agreed upon by all and it has made a world of difference. I can't speak for Aspie adults, but when it comes to younger Autistics I think it's important families know that Behav Mod. can be an option and they have to explore that avenue.

However, I wish there was something out there for adult Aspies who want it. Note, I'm underlining who want it. I realize not everyone wants their behavior changed and there needs to be more openmindedness towards Apies in public. Personally, if I were an employer I wouldn't care how many times someone twirled a pencil as long as they did their job well. That's what they're paid for. But, Behav Mod. is not about twirling pencils. Trust me.

um...post wasn't directed at you...and i was in a class.it sucked.

However,

i'm getting sick of all those stupid adults who are like"my baby plays by twiling bicycle wheels!SCAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRY!"

i never said you were one of them,Because, once again, it wasn't directed at you.

Effective is relative, it may teach them how to behave in ways that differ less from what is expected of them, it does not help them develop their own skills and abilities. Given that the expected behaviours are learned by most anyway, without any intervention, but that many latent abilities and talents can never be developed as well as when they are learned as children.

ABA's focus on changing behaviour at all costs and its complate disregard for the individual and their wellbeing also provides a dangerous vector for abusive treatments, as is demonstrated in the JRC. ABA does not care for the individual or their life, it is only interested in results as measured by scoring tables.

Oh, I didn't think the post was directed at anyone in general. I was just replying.

The one area you won't get any argument out of me is adult environments like the workplace. The example you gave. I agreed with you because I think the workplace should be about work.

Sorry, but I must admit it was hard making out your understanding 100% because of your typing style. Our son isn't in a class for Behav Mod. It's an on-going program that's administered 50% in-home and 50% in everyday surroundings, like places he would have trouble with. For example, this week is Easter so all of his outside-the-home activities have been set up to create goals at events that would present a challenge one way or the other. Even though it's work for him, he gets to partake of the normal seasonal festivities as any other kid and one day soon, he'll be able to enter these environments and manage his behavior or other issues on his own.

A good Behav Mod. program should be geared towards independence and that's what we're aiming for. Also, the things I've mentioned are only a few of the things they work on. Potty training is a big, big, big issue among Autistic families. Behav Mod. programs work on that as well. Whereas many of the families we know couldn't get their kids potty trained before age 10, ours was potty trained quite early...basically on schedule with NT kids. Potty training was incorporated into our Behav Mod. system.

Edited to add: Fine motor skills, gross motor skills, writing, reading, math are also a part of the program. I just wanted to clarify that Behav Mod. program don't just try to "change" someone. They are working on all of the deficits the child has that does not able him to function properly, even in school. For example, many Autistic kids have problems with fine motor which mades it impossible for them to hold a pencil, cut with scissors, tie shoelaces or even dress themselves. Our Behav Mod. program attacked this issue with a vengeance and my kid now has excellent fine motor skills. He has no problem whatsoever.

A few months ago, my wife and I saw a program about a high-functioning Autistic man who was very intelligent and articulate, yet had no fine motor skills. He eventually will get a job to support himself, but will be dependent on someone for the rest of his life to do normal things that we take for granted like brushing our teeth, dress himself, the whole nine yards. Behav Mods. work to bring these issues under control at a young age.

So, these are the things Behav Mod. programs do. The key is finding the right program that works. We were lucky straight out of the bat. DTT (Discrete Trials) has been great. But, ours has a flavor of PVT (Pivotal Response) and TEACH. That's because the people who administer it were trained in all of these disciplines.




Okay, I'm rambling. But, this is a topic I obviously enjoy discussing.

Last edited by NewportBeachDude on 21 Mar 2008, 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Whatever you say. Peace, dude.

As long as it isn't forced on anyone with any kind of punishment if you refuse to participate.


I know that I would never subject my any child to this, as well maybe a catatonic one but even then, I'd probably want their brain x-rayed/scanned to see at least a little of what was going on in their head before making asumptions that WOULD be detrimental.


I've heard/read stories where all it took was for a doctor and a parent to agree and then a ABA therapist was sent to their house. Scary.


Effective? Yeah, it may teach them what the program goal was meant to teach them or make them do, and it may teach them well. But what was lost in the process? Was it worth it? For anyone? Especially the poor child?


Another thing; in how many cases are aversives or restraints used? With restraints, why? Does it ever hurt them physically or psychologically? Aversives? NEVER!

Ana54, it sounds like people here may have a jaded idea of what Behav Mod. is all about based on things they've "heard" or pre-conceived notions of what it's all about. Years ago, these program had so much to be desired. Autism treatment was in its infancy and people like Lovaas regret how harsh even he treated the kids. But, that is in the past. When you look at the programs I've mentioned including Floortime and SonRise, they are very much in support of the child and working to help the child his/her own potential. Now, that doesn't mean every parent likes it or wants it. It's the parent's choice.

Our program only has positive reinforcements. When we first started, those reinforcements were in the form of treats because he was so young. However, they've transfered over into things that he, not us, wants to work for. Sometimes it can be as simple as a swim in the pool. Or, a local outting. Eventually, there will be no token rewards. All of that will be done away with and he will have the same expecations as any NT kid would. The removal of those systems makes his program a bit like PVT, that's why I said his program has elements of the other disciplines because it's does.

You have to see a program in action to really understand it. When you first start out, it's difficult as hell. You are changing behaviors so there's plenty of drawback from the child. But, the more the program starts working, the easier it gets. ABA can also mean the difference between a child staying in Special Ed for their entire education vs. being mainstreamed where they can get a good education. ABA can help the child manage behaviors that keep them out of mainstream classes...behaviors that regular teachers aren't equipped to deal with and ones that have the potential to disrupt other student's from learning.

And, the best thing about is is that we are lucky to be in an area with multiple resources that will fund it, no matter how rich/poor the family is. We estimate the cost of my son's program out of pocket would probably be about $30,000 year. That does not include all of his other services. That is ABA alone.

The closest thing I've had to behavioral therapy is my parents yelling at me what I could and could not do throughout my childhood. That and being teased mercilessly by other kids. Enough of that builds up and you figure out what makes people tick.
I used to have serious behavioral problems as a kid, not enough to warrent medication, but they did consider it. My parents solution was to punish it out of me, throw the guilt trip my way as I got older and eventually to give up. But, don't get me wrong I don't really blame them for what they did, it was a time when they just didn't have the money, resources or knowledge to help me properly. They had no idea what was really wrong, and most of this was due to things out of there control.

I suppose I could have benefited from some sort of therapy, but I'd still be afraid if my parents would've choosen the right sort. Things like Floortime sound really great. These newer methods sound like they would be great for a kid. But I still worry that there are parents relying on older methods that could be harmful or emotionally damaging for there kid.

When I think of behavior modification sometimes, I think of this cartoon I saw once where a man tells the doctor his antidepressants aren't working, so the doctor cuts off his head, screws a lightbulb onto his neck in its place, and pronounces him cured. (The doctor then throws the head in the wastebasket, where it continues to talk, saying it didn't feel any better or something.) There is no way that the lightbulb guy that walks out of the doctor's office is the same person that went in!


Behavioral approaches, behaviorism, all that, it seems to me like mental hygiene as opposed to mental health. People are taught how to not offend others, but that offence is still inside themselves; they have unresolved problems inside them that will come out if they live long enough. This is just like telling people that as long as you brush your teeth, shower regularly, and wash your clothes and maybe do some extra pretty things and match your clothes, you're going to be healthy. No; you might look good, but inside, if you're dying of cancer, you're dying of cancer, and one day, the behaviorally-modified person with perfect hygiene will keep over dead and rotting, and be even more offensive. Ending the shallow, watered-down behaviorist society where we have no deep relationships and it won't last forever, and maybe if behaviorists know this they aren't so bad after all, but something tells me they don't or are in denial or something.


But I really want to hear about this stuff, hwo it's done, maybe I should lok on YouTube for some videos.

I don't know what behavioral treatment this is but it not what is commonly known as behavioral therapy that is usually combined with cognitive therapy to form CBT. What your talking about sounds more like brain washing, aversive, or 'corrective' therapy.

It is absolutely false the behavioral therapy is supposed to change you against your will or promote internalizing feelings, etc. It can't even begin with that prerequisite as it only works when you can identify a clearly definable problem yourself. Without your input nobody would ever be able to use it on you because they are not psychic. It is most effective when it is your ideas

It is pretty natural to fear therapy. Nobody should be forced to do it if they don't want. CBT is probably the most practical and sound therapy to date. It covers a wide range of things, it is more of a concept than a single therapy. People often are doing it without thinking. What makes CBT effective is you can actually record results and CBT therapists have been actively doing so, which can't really be said of other therapies like psychotherapy, which some people go to for years without resolving much.

That's my 2p. I think anyone who is cynical should find out more about it first.

I feel like my pride prevents me from agreeing with any behavioural therapy. Why should we accept that the way nature made us is wrong? Our mental state is surely more natural than the society which we live in. "Behaviour" is only relative to the society which it exists in, so if society were structured differently (and there have historically been many attempts to change the structure of society) then maybe we would be the ones who were "right". I'm sure all of you would agree that the world would be in a lot better shape if it were run by autistics. There'd be a hell of a lot more honesty at least, and we would be a society that takes time to enjoy the little things rather than obsess over destroying the planet to gain wealth.

We all seem to get angry and frustrated with the restraints society imposes on us; so why shouldn't we be? Honestly, the NTs have done a pretty good job a screwing things up so far. Maybe we represent nothing more than a stage in human evolution. Maybe we are among the first to change as nature sees fit. The rising rates of autism appear to be what nature desires. Maybe, (purely speculative theory here...) we aren't just assuming people can read our minds when we are silent, but we are a stepping stone closer to more advanced communication, like telepathy. This world needs a global consciousness now more than ever! After all, most of the greatest human advancement--and our claim to superiority over animals--involves communication. Speech is becoming more and more antiquated in this 'age of information'.

So, I say: "don't let them change you!" You all have incredible abilities as well as weaknesses. While the deficiencies are only deficiencies because this temporary design for a society says they are. NTs can only wish they had your abilities! And you can't separate the weaknesses from strengths without destroying what makes you who you are. Please, don't let who you are be destroyed! Lets stand up for Autism Pride! We deserve a chance to change the world for the better since the NTs can only teach us to accept their flawed society.

In a mad world, only the mad are truly sane!