Just got called in to see the principal.

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My son, who is eight and diagnosed as high-functioning Asperger's (fairly recently), drew stick figures of the new student in class stabbing himself, and a long rambling note saying things like "If you like [student] then kill him or kill yourself."

His teacher noticed it when she walked by his desk and took it. The district is keeping the note but giving us a copy, and he has been suspended for the next five days, when school is out for the Summer.

My questions:

1. Does this strike you as atypical or typical of a kid with Asperger's?

2. When seeking a therapist, should we try to find someone who has experience working with Asperger's, or does this strike you as being a totally different issue?

He has drawn violent stick figure cartoons in the past, some of which were culled from a video game, I believe, which he played briefly until we busted him.

Whoa... overreaction on the part of the school, much.
I'd recommend he make another such image and note depicting the responsible staff next.

I went from drawing various people (including other people at school) killing each other in Primary School through to making collages of people from fashion catalogues being mutilated by power tools and painting all the gore on myself in High School.....
Never once got in trouble for any of it (and a good thing too, since the collages were hilarious).



In answer to your questions:

#1. Yes. Typical... for me at least.

#2. Don't seek a therapist at all. It is perfectly fine. Your son has just realised that some people are better off dead. ^_^

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Aspies aren't typically violent.

While children may think violent thoughts (and they do), they know enough not to let others know. Children are repeatedly told that it isn't appropriate or acceptable to do or speak of violence. Social norms are difficult for Aspies to learn, and it may be that the manner in which he was expressing his thoughts got caught.

I have an eight year old aspie myself. He has said things that were disturbing (it would be wierd if that knife went flying through the house and landed on the dog), but at the same time, he gets very upset if anyone so much as looks crosswise at the dog, or he yelps. We tell him it isn't appropriate to talk about hurting animals or people. We explain that it disturbs people. We also tell him it's okay to tell us what he's thinking, and we'll be able to discuss it.

Drawings are in insight into children. I took a course on interpreting basic children's drawings (I worked with pre-school children for many years). If I was to see a picture such as you described, I would be concerned. It shows repressed anger and agression. I would want to know if the child is agressive with others, verbally violent, or exposed to images of violence. You need to make sure that your child understands why he is being suspended, and get him to counselling.

You should find a counsellor that knows of Asperger's. An NT child and an Aspie are very different creatures. It will help them determine how to get information to your child, and from your child.

All children do things that worry us, and we become completely overwhelmed with possible implications. Breath deeply, and just remember that you are doing the right thing. You are going to get him some help, you are going to work with the school, and you are going to connect with your son. Don't blow it out of proportion quite yet. If he had killed a cat, or actually hurt someone, I'd be very worried, but put one foot in front of the other and do what needs to be done right now.

He may simply not know how to express himself appropriately, and it would be sad if you had consigned his life to something undesirable before you find out.

It would be good to get a therapist to help him more appropriately deal with his feelings of anger. Yes, I would find someone who works with AS children. While this may or may not be due to his Asperger's, it will definitely play a role in it.

By the way, even if there was likely no real intent for harm by your son, schools have to address these issues. It's a liability issue for them.

I had a similar thing happen when I was in early grade school. There was a teacher that always tried to get me to talk during class when I clearly did not want to (I wasn't diagnosed at the time and everyone knew I hardly talked anyway). He gave us an assignment that was for us to draw a picture of something we wished for: "I wish..."

I drew a picture of him being buried by a storm of rocks with a caption that said "I wish Mr. ____ would die." I didn't think anything was wrong with it. I thought it was actually a fairly decent representation of my thoughts. I only found out afterwards that it might not have been the best choice in the situation.

I got questioned about it but I don't think I got in serious trouble. He forgave me after I said that I didn't like being picked on during class - that I just wanted to sit and listen and I think he felt bad about that.

I'm not a violent person and I doubt most Aspies are. There are just a lot of misunderstandings between us and NTs. Don't be too hard on the kid, he probably didn't know anything was wrong with his pictures. I don't suggest accusing him of doing something horrible but make sure he understands why what he did was not appropriate. If he doesn't know how to explain his actions maybe ask him to draw more pictures. I find they are sometimes more effective than words.

Yeah, that was the sense I got was that they were, on the one hand, totally concerned with liability while repeating over and over, "but really I'm just concerned about [your son]."

My wife went back in just now and talked with the principal, teacher, and my son. Apparently the new kid has been teasing him and excluding him, and when my son complained nobody did anything.

We've also contacted a local Asp. researcher who did a study with my son recently and he is connecting us to a good therapist. I am bothered by his use of the word suicide, but not too freaked out at this point.

Thank you for the useful advice thus far, it is appreciated.

Was there anything this new child has said or done to your son? It is not typical for a person with aspergers to just hate a person for no reason.

Yes, apparently he was teasing my son and excluding him from playing with his friends. And according to the research mentioned previously, it's illegal to suspend him for Aspy related behavior. Fan--meet the fecal matter.

I think this whole thing of kids repeating things they see/draw is a hoax.
I watched violent cartoons all my life and it never affected me.
At age 11 it was said on the tv that looking at violent cartoons makes kids violent.
So at this point it was even forbidden for a while to watch this cartoon.
Ever since computers came out i've been playing war/shooting games as wel.
I never really got into many fights and none since 16 onwards until now.
"ret*d" is the only word i can describe people with who assume people wil become violent from such influences.
Ofcourse this doesn't include people with real issues, but they would have done theyr disgusting deeds aniways.

My son used the word suicide for a while...(eight and aspie). He isn't and wasn't depressed...he was just in a very tough situation at school that no one was listening to. It was his way of expressing that he didn't want to be in it anymore (had just learned the word).

We had to teach him better ways of expressing himself. It's so easy to forget to reach out and check with him if everythign is going alright. My other son always lets us know, so with the little guy, if he doesn't say anything, sometimes I forget.

As I said, its a matter of learning what is and isn't appropriate (my son is learning that some things are okay at home and definately not at school). They are funny little creatures. I know that as a child I, too, did some very odd things that concerned my parents and school teachers.

I'm sorry he was suspended. Understand it, but think it was a little over reactionary.

We do role-playing at home, as well, to get a sense of how he's acting at school with the other kids. It helps prep him too.

Good luck!

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but really it isn't THAT good. When the teacher took the picture away, she lost evidence *******FOREVER******* that can NEVER be retrieved! HOW? She lost the CONTEXT!

WHAT was he going to do with the picture?
WHO was he going to show?
WHAT was he going to say?

It could have been anything from an outlet of hostility to a request for others. The latter would have been bad, but the former is HARMLESS!

You have NO idea what happened. The picture is NO good without context, and there is no context.

If people saw how I viewed some people, I would maybe be gassed or something EVEN though they would be FAR worse off with me gone. Have I so much as SCRATCHED those people or their cars, etc...? NOPE!

BTW I will NEVER forget the time that a "teacher" STOLE an apple corer from me! I was about 7. It was pretty HARMLESS! She said she thought it could be used as a weapon! YEAH RIGHT! She NEVER gave it back to me, though she promised. What did THEY think? Did they think of it like your "teachers" thought about your son's picture. BTW She knew about it because she saw me coring an apple. This was the kind where you press down HARD with it against an apple. The thin metal radial sheets make diagonal "cuts" while the cylinder in the middle cuts against the core. If I wanted a weapon, I would have brought a knife. It would have cored better also.

Last edited by 2ukenkerl on 23 May 2008, 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, when I was eight I said I couldn't wait to go to heaven, so my parents worried I was suicidal, which was not the case at all. They asked about it, and I set them straight. It's always a good idea to talk about how the kid feels about what they said or did, or what they meant by it, otherwise you don't know whether you should be really worried.

Heck, I have done one thing that it sounds like many here have done, etc... I always figured I was merely tired! NOW, I am not so sure.

Apparently, some Autistic/AS people speak based on their ideas, without giving context.

ALSO, NTs tend to ASSUME!

LostInSpace's last statement may be an example of such a thing. This means you can't just ask a question, get a statement, and RUN with it.

I used to cut myself when I was younger(11-16), not to get attention per se but to try and show people how much I hurt, because I had trouble expressing it or trying to explain to people in a way that they would truly understand.

Maybe your son is trying to do something similar. If the new student has been teasing him or whatever.....
well...I've not taken a class to interpret children's drawings like DevonB, but since the student has been picking on your son, the picture may show that he wants other childrent to not like this kid as much as they have been...And if they refuse to to part ways with the new student, maybe they aren't worth it either. I seriously doubt that he would have passed it around or shown it to anyone else at all.

And the picture doesn't necessarily say that he wants him dead. I may say I hate someone, but what I usually mean is they annoy (the sh*t) out of me. I find it really hard to even dislike people most of the time.

Is he seeing a counselor at all? Well, regardless, he may want a 3rd party to talk to about how some children/people will act (the nt popularity thing mostly). Have at least one session where the counselor talks to your son about the picture and how that isn't a good way to express himself. And maybe adding something about talking to other people cause they may have a way to resolve the situatoin that you/he/we/me (whatever) may not have thought of before. You may want to find someone who says that sometimes its ok to draw pictures, (and yes, some people do draw controversial or violent pictures)but there is a time and place for that. That way the school can't do or say much about it later on (I wouldn't mention the time and place for that stuff though, I doubt they would agree with it). And I would have someone besides a school counselor because of special interests, or whatever.

Then people need to start asking themselves (like the teacher, school admin etc) why he didn't talk to anyone about the situation that was going on with this other student. Like i said about cutting myself (and I mention that cause thats the reference in my life that I have to this) that may have been a way to express himself when he didn't feel he could talk to anyone about it or didn't feel like people were really understanding what he was saying...
(or why the teacher ignored this situation. I would find it hard to believe if the teacher said they didn't know what was going on....maybe teach said it wasn't a big deal if/when your son brought it to their attention?) Or maybe why he didn't feel he could talk to the teacher about it....
My issue with teachers: I had many many situations where if I could have trusted my teachers, many many situations could have been resolved with their help. Unfortunately, those buttheads don't ever really seem to care all that much (well...there are a few gems out there ) I always heard "its not that big a deal, don't worry about it, it doesn't matter, i'm doing something else/busy right now"...etc etc etc

Yeah, that was the sense I got was that they were, on the one hand, totally concerned with liability while repeating over and over, "but really I'm just concerned about [your son]."

Is this by chance a public school? I went to a Montessori school where I did very well, and my hostility was dealt with as best they could. Then I got dumped in a public school when my private school closed, and I had real problems with an arbitrary rather than adaptive rule structure. Liability is a terrible thing; all investments involve risk! They don't sound too concerned about their liability if your child becomes antisocial in adulthood if teachers ignore teasing and bullying from other children.

My wife went back in just now and talked with the principal, teacher, and my son. Apparently the new kid has been teasing him and excluding him, and when my son complained nobody did anything.

There you have it. Your child, unlike the teacher and principal, appreciated the gravity of the situation. Children that behave like this turn into adults that behave like this; the authorities we encounter as adults are usually the same children that teased and excluded those who were different. While these children may need to die, he can never, ever express that thought - except in the company of like-minded individuals.

We've also contacted a local Asp. researcher who did a study with my son recently and he is connecting us to a good therapist. I am bothered by his use of the word suicide, but not too freaked out at this point.

I wish my therapist had known about Asperger's Syndrome, the general consensus seemed to be that I was an incredibly acidic/caustic/negative person, but not in a psychotic way. "Smart-mouthed jerk" would be a polite summary of how therapists diagnosed me, which was not helpful at all. Therapy is a two-edged sword, it can help, but diagnosis is synonymous with stigmatization by the type of children he and I both had problems with at that age.

As for the use of the word suicide, it shows a good vocabulary and proves that he is aware that violence towards the aggressor children is a bad idea. I have no idea what the school is freaking out about, but I don't empathize properly, either. What I do know for sure is that you should support your child first and his teacher second.

P.S. Please forgive the lateness of this reply, I went to my friend's house for dinner.

Has your son ever been violent towards anyone before? If not...then I really don't think you should be worried.
Kids, teens and adults need ways to express themselves, whether it be writing, talking, or drawing, it's up to the individual.

Many people probably write things in their journals such as..."I wish (insert name) was dead" or "I want to kill (insert name)"...but it doesn't mean they are going to act on it. Just like your son, who drew that probably as an outlet rather than an actual plan. Since you said that this new student has been bullying your son, I'm really not surprised that he drew what he did and in my opinion, it's better than holding in that thought.
Although, you do know your son better than anyone on this board, so it's really up to you whether you think this is anything of concern and whether to seek help or not.