AS and in the military...

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So if you want to stay in and/or protect in a free country you should sign up to fight and do whatever George Bush and co tell you for whatever reason without questioning or criticising the logic and wisdom involved in those decisions? That attitude sure worked for the Japanese, Germans and Italians leading up to WW2! Thank the godess'es im not the only one who sees the twisted logic used in your argument, Ladysmokeater.

While stupidity is certainly more prevalent in the military than most lines of work it is an unfair generalisation to say that everyone in the military are stupid. They are however willing to let people they dont know continue to decide whether they live or not so either like the risk of death or have willingly given up the right to use their own mind on political matters (whther through want or being hard up) so are to an extent just cogs in a machine. Many people i know who have been in the military have seen what's going on and are anti-war and the ones that arent tend to have an overabundance of testosterone and a drastic shortage of grey matter on average.

It is also a fiction to say that we need an army to stay free. While having a regular trained army is preferable, (so is having world leaders you can trust and arent out for themselves but we never seem to get that one) WW2 for instance was fought mostly by people like my grandad, who had never picked up a gun or been in the military before the war but he managed to be a squadron leader, shooting down many planes before being shot down himself then escaping a German prison camp.

Did anyone bring up George Bush besides you? I don't remember anyone saying anything about going along with whatever Bush says. I do remember you being asked to show some respect to our troops.



You can't say that stupidity is more prevalent in the military than in any other job, and then say it's unfair to to make generalizations about them. At least Ladysmokeater didn't contradict herself, so her argument is a lot less twisted than your's.



Oh I get it now. The military personnel who don't agree with you or your little friends are the stupid ones.

Considering that a lot of people I've known from school who were physically violent bullies have since joined the army and considering that they bullied people who were "wimps" and "nerds" - both sub-groups obviously containing people with Asperger's syndrome - I'd argue that nobody who is neurologically atypical should join the armed forces.

I believe in celebrating diversity but the army will never be a part of it. It will always be an organisation that frowns on individuality and I'm confident that if you joined, Sean, despite the fact that you like to think you're tough you would become a victim of the bullies in the army. Having manic depression, Tourette's and Asperger's guarantees you would be considered weird.

That's just the way it is. If you feel reckless enough to not follow common sense then I can only hope your family and friends will all but force you to not join. I can actually tell you of a man I know from America who's a sergeant in the army there who has manic depression and who is the victim of bullying. He's physically tough but it doesn't matter. In the army, everyone is.

Sorce you read what you want to read out of Eamons post

No, I just get annoyed when people make assumptions about people, because their grandfather was in the military.

Does no-one else mentioning George Bush preclude me from doing so? I mentioned him as a particular instance since he is the leader of the worlds biggest economy and most people on this site. I will mention Robert Mugabe or Bertie Ahern too if it pleases you. Let me know.



I never said that anyone couldnt make generalisations about the military, just that to say they are all stupid is an unfair generalisation imo. I stand by my observation that stupidity and letting other people make up your mind for you are often co-related and as such the military is afflicted with no small amount of stupidity.



Well as i have alluded to earlier, an inability to think for oneself and toeing the party line for life usually means one of a few things, your playing the game to make it in a life where civilian life isnt giving you the opportunities you wished, you have a death-wish/ need for high-risk frills, or as is most common, you are lacking the ability to think issues through for yourself and need someone to do that for you. It has to be said there are few soldiers who have been affected by gulf-war syndrome and/or psychological issues and have been left to rot who are pro-military.

Knowing how these people are treated by the governments of the day where their life means little and still deciding to join the military does leave a question mark on society and often on the judgement of the willing recruit.

Last edited by eamonn on 12 Feb 2006, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Now who's making assumptions? I have commented on my own experiences. My Grandfather never once talked to me about the war. What little i know about his military exploits is what i have read in old newspapers that have come into our aqquisition since my Granny's death.

Well I had one grandad was a pilot in the RAF and one who was a refugee fleeing anti-semetic and bolshevik persecution in his home land of Russia and i have other family members who were in the military of various countries. Eamon has family in the military as well if you care to read in another post of his

I dont think i do, to my knowledge. I have had family who fought for Irish independance against the British Military. one of whom who is even mentioned in a book iv looked at.

When i was at a low ebb and felt there was nothing else in life for me,I tried to join the Irish army but failed the audiogram in my right ear, though was given a chance to retry which i didnt take. Im eternally grateful that i didnt get in as i can see that my individualistic attitude and desire to question, along with my aspie issues, would have left me in a miserable state.

Navy people, however, are not only intelligent and smart but look dashing in their tight white pants. One, two, three...... "In the navy, come on and join your fellow man".

Ah my correction. Maybe it was Ascan he's got that miltancy streak about him

But that's not what she said. She said those that DO volunteer deserve respect for that choice. This I agree with, and everyone should, imo. You don't have to agree with it, just respect it.

That is pretty much what she said by her suggestion that those who arent pro-military are anti-freedom and should go somewhere else if we dont respect the role of the military.

Why do people that serve in the military deserve respect any more than anyone else? I respect those that go to war as a moral choice if they feel it is the right one but why do some people take it as a given that those who work in the military as their a job should somehow command more respect than someone who works as a butcher, a baker or a candlestick maker? I dont have any more respect for those that choose to work as a government agent than anyone else. Probably less so because they do what they are told, whether they are saving lives or unjustifiably taking them, without a second thought (at the time). Why should this not be so?

That is precisely what she was implying. It is a common tactic used to bully people into agreeing with them on things such as, oh I don't know, going into Iraq under false pretenses?



Well said. I respect soldiers who join the army to combat specific threats that are an immediate threat to a population. And I also believe a military is necessary.. but only if any power that would use them is controlled strongly by the population. However in modern times, as in chess, they are dispensible pawns in political games---not people who should be only used as a last resort.

If Sean wants to join the army, that's obviously his choice. But he should be aware that if he dies, someone in his family might become another Cindy Sheehan. Heh

nm, this will simply be a flamewar

I prefer to call it a pre-mating ritual for dysfunctional people