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beef_bourito
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02 Dec 2008, 11:08 am

^^^ i agree, i don't like arguing with people who can't understand simple logic, i don't even bother anymore. the one thing i avoid completely is arguing religion (i'm not saying religious people are stupid, let me explain). i used to be catholic, and when i was i knew that a lot of science disagreed with my religion, and i could see why someone wouldn't be religious, but i still believed. i don't debate religion anymore because whenever i do it's with someone who's so hardheaded that they can't wrap their minds around the fact that someone might not believe the same thing they do and it usually ends with them describing their personal experiences and saying "how do you explain THAT" and acting all smug about it.

i love intelligent debate, especially if i learn something and change my opinion. if i walk away from a debate with a new point of view, i feel satisfied. the whole point of debate for me is for both people to walk away with the same, or similar, point of view. you're trying to convince the other person that your opinion is correct. most of the time debates won't change someones opinion on something (and often that's just because people are too proud to admit that the other person might have a point), but for me if i walk away with even a slightly different perception, it actually makes me happy. i guess it's weird for me to say that i actually like losing an intelligent debate, considering how competitive i am.



gina-ghettoprincess
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02 Dec 2008, 11:16 am

beef_bourito wrote:
^^^ i agree, i don't like arguing with people who can't understand simple logic, i don't even bother anymore. the one thing i avoid completely is arguing religion (i'm not saying religious people are stupid, let me explain). i used to be catholic, and when i was i knew that a lot of science disagreed with my religion, and i could see why someone wouldn't be religious, but i still believed. i don't debate religion anymore because whenever i do it's with someone who's so hardheaded that they can't wrap their minds around the fact that someone might not believe the same thing they do and it usually ends with them describing their personal experiences and saying "how do you explain THAT" and acting all smug about it.

i love intelligent debate, especially if i learn something and change my opinion. if i walk away from a debate with a new point of view, i feel satisfied. the whole point of debate for me is for both people to walk away with the same, or similar, point of view. you're trying to convince the other person that your opinion is correct. most of the time debates won't change someones opinion on something (and often that's just because people are too proud to admit that the other person might have a point), but for me if i walk away with even a slightly different perception, it actually makes me happy. i guess it's weird for me to say that i actually like losing an intelligent debate, considering how competitive i am.


Agreed, arguing religion seems pointless as everyone believes different things. Live and let live, I say.

Yeah, a lot of the time in a debate, it may seem the two people are complete polar opposites, but after a while it can come out that they both agree after all and merely have different ideas from the same perspective.


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DeLoreanDude
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02 Dec 2008, 12:23 pm

Yes, I notice logical flaws in what people say all the time! Annoys people a lot!



CleverKitten
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02 Dec 2008, 1:49 pm

Ahh, I have faced much hostility by being logical.

Most people don't like to have their inconsistencies pointed out to them, because it damages their egos.
(Note: I am not talking specifically about NTs, and also note that I said most, not all.)

I remember when my mom said, "When you pay the phone bill, you can talk on the phone all you want!"
So I went and bought my own Pay-As-You-Go cell phone, and I paid for it all by myself!

Well, one day, mom tried to take the cellphone away from me.
I quoted her word-for-word what she had told me before, and even told her the exact date she had said it.
Mom got all mad at me and claimed that she never such a thing. :roll: She played 'selective memory."


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MasterBrain
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02 Dec 2008, 4:36 pm

CleverKitten wrote:
Ahh, I have faced much hostility by being logical.

Most people don't like to have their inconsistencies pointed out to them, because it damages their egos.
(Note: I am not talking specifically about NTs, and also note that I said most, not all.)

I remember when my mom said, "When you pay the phone bill, you can talk on the phone all you want!"
So I went and bought my own Pay-As-You-Go cell phone, and I paid for it all by myself!

Well, one day, mom tried to take the cellphone away from me.
I quoted her word-for-word what she had told me before, and even told her the exact date she had said it.
Mom got all mad at me and claimed that she never such a thing. :roll: She played 'selective memory."


i have the same thing whit my laptop.


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km2113
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02 Dec 2008, 5:42 pm

timeisdead wrote:
I constantly hear logical fallacies in the arguments of others. I piece together previously said information and quickly give counter examples. I also analyze their belief systems and find inherent contradictions and flaws of reasoning. I can find a loophole in many points that are made during a discussion. I enjoy ripping them to shreds during a discussion.


Yes, definitely, but it usually stays in my head. People get defensive. I usually find it's not worth antagonizing them for the hell of it.

Fiction, on the other hand, is fair game. I love picking out flaws in movies/books/TV.



timeisdead
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02 Dec 2008, 6:01 pm

km2113 wrote:
timeisdead wrote:
I constantly hear logical fallacies in the arguments of others. I piece together previously said information and quickly give counter examples. I also analyze their belief systems and find inherent contradictions and flaws of reasoning. I can find a loophole in many points that are made during a discussion. I enjoy ripping them to shreds during a discussion.


Yes, definitely, but it usually stays in my head. People get defensive. I usually find it's not worth antagonizing them for the hell of it.

Fiction, on the other hand, is fair game. I love picking out flaws in movies/books/TV.


The key points to persuasion are to examine and point out how and why the opponent's beliefs contradict themselves, giving concrete examples as to why their ideology is flawed, and if possible giving reasons why their ideology would be counterproductive to the goals they wish to achieve. It also helps to know the individual you are talking to ( to understand what works and what doesn't). I have changed the minds of many people that way.



Katatonic
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02 Dec 2008, 6:25 pm

timeisdead wrote:
I constantly hear logical fallacies in the arguments of others. I piece together previously said information and quickly give counter examples. I also analyze their belief systems and find inherent contradictions and flaws of reasoning. I can find a loophole in many points that are made during a discussion. I enjoy ripping them to shreds during a discussion.


Yes. Quite often actually. Which I think is why I don't have many friends. Even if I DID believe in what they were saying BEFORE they said it, I still try to find ways to tell them that they're wrong...*shrugs*


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DentArthurDent
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02 Dec 2008, 7:10 pm

timeisdead wrote:
They not only contradict themselves in their words, but in their behavior as well. NT's are notorious hypocrites.


:roll:

Yes and ASPIES are notorious for not acknowledging they have a disorder and the associated symptoms. They can also be painfully superior and self righteous with no good cause

To respond to the OP yes I love an argument, always have and always will. I think this behaviour is one reason many of us are not good socially. I have difficulty with small talk and need to start up a serious discussion.


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02 Dec 2008, 7:30 pm

I thought like this for a long time.

Then I saw a film;

"to let that which does not matter truly slide." ---Tyler Durden



Foundationi2
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02 Dec 2008, 7:32 pm

timeisdead wrote:
I wish human beings were logical......


If all humans were 100% logical things would be boring imho. I mean, there would be no mistakes, nothing to learn from. That's just my view.



Shadow50
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03 Dec 2008, 2:04 am

Pretty much all of the above for me too.

Don't like arguments ... two people can't have an argument if one of them won't.

Discussions/debates are fine.

No point trying to convince people who don't want to know any different ... just accept that's how they are ... let them be ... and adjust your thoughts accordingly.

Everybody tells lies ... but that's OK, coz nobody listens.


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