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Unknown_Quantity
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03 Jan 2009, 2:46 am

Jett had Autism, it was diagnosed and John Travolta was told to ignore the diagnosis.

The level of Autism Jett had and the other aspects of his condition (seizures, etc.) required treatment with medications that Scientology has demonised and campaigned against for decades.

They believe that conditions like Autism and Aspergers Syndrome are psychosomatic and that Scientology can cure these conditions in a matter of hours with "Auditing" (Scientology's combination of psychotherapy and confessional while holding an E-meter - a crude lie detector). Because Jett wasn't cured by Auditing and the Purification Rundown (steam baths, vitamins in very high doses) then he couldn't have Autism.

Rather than question the "Tech" (the dogma of Scientology, called it's "Technology") which CANNOT be wrong, they simply refused the diagnosis.

You have to remember that to a Scientologist, taking the medicines that Jett required to control his seizures would be comparable to a devout Catholic having an abortion everyday, or a Hare Krishna eating a Big Mac for every meal. And accepting the fact that Jett was actually Autistic, that would be heresy.

The fact that Jett did not respond to Auditing and was such obvious proof as to the ineffectiveness of the Tech was a huge embarrassment to the Travoltas. They shut him away for most of the time, he was raised by hired carers, having very little to do with his actual parents. Even friends of Travolta spoke out about his disconnection and shame over his son. Jett was a real thorn in his father's side.

I think there needs to be a full inquest into Jett's death. And I don't know how, but I think we on the Asperger's and Autistic spectrum should be pressuring the police to look into this. The Scientology organisation needs to be questioned over this. We need real medical examination to be carried out (by doctors who are not themselves Scientologists). And there needs to be an independant inquiry into why Jett Travolta was denied the medication that would have most probably meant the difference between his life and death!

This tragedy should have been prevented.


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Postperson
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03 Jan 2009, 4:08 am

One of the reports stated there would be a autopsy, so that should establish the cause of death and it's fairly usual in a case where no one witnessed the death anyway.

I spose it's like the Jehovahs and blood transfusions, if that's what you believe then that's what you do. I don't know that epilepsy medications are a 'magic bullet' anyway. It's probably more the fact that he was unaccompanied that was the problem. I guess it's more like neglect, and that neglect could and did lead to death in his case.



2ukenkerl
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03 Jan 2009, 7:20 am

Postperson wrote:
One of the reports stated there would be a autopsy, so that should establish the cause of death and it's fairly usual in a case where no one witnessed the death anyway.

I spose it's like the Jehovahs and blood transfusions, if that's what you believe then that's what you do. I don't know that epilepsy medications are a 'magic bullet' anyway. It's probably more the fact that he was unaccompanied that was the problem. I guess it's more like neglect, and that neglect could and did lead to death in his case.


Scientologists like to consider their brain HOLY in a way. They consider themselves BETTER than mere mortals as they "go through stages of clear". They don't MENTION that, and most probably don't even think about it in quite that way, but look at how they speak and their recruitment materials, and you will see I am right. One of their goals in life(that they actually ADVERTISE) is to convert EVERYONE in the world.

http://org.law.rutgers.edu/publications ... _2_1_1.pdf

OBVIOUSLY, something so holy is not to be touched. THAT is why they hate psychiatrists, etc... It isn't like the JW that merely feel that they should be left untouched because they were created by god and to fiddle with their bodies is to tamper with god's work or god's plan. On the surface, they seem identical, but.... A scientologist thinks of it as his/her mind/soul out of his own work and duty to saving humanity. A JW thinks of it as his/her body/soul out of gods work for gods use. BOTH officially see themselves as having a duty to evangelize.

BTW I provided the link mainly because it explains the whole idea and problem so well. In a nutshell, here is the idea....

Quote:
When a person operates at "optimal" levels, and the reactive mind is kept in check
by the analytic mind, one is in a state of "Clear."29 Clear is achieved through a process

While in a state of "Clear," a person is said to be:
*Freed from active or potential psychosomatic illness or aberration
*Self-determined
*Vigorous and persistent
*Unrepressed
*Able to perceive, recall, imagine, create and compute at a level high above the norm
*Stable mentally
*Free with his emotion
*Able to enjoy life
*Freer from accidents
*Healthier
*Able to reason swiftly
*Able to react quickly
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY INTERNATIONAL, WHAT IS SCIENTOLOGY? 66-67 (1998). Those who achieve
"Clear" are entitled to wear a special bracelet bearing a Scientological insignia of two triangles and the
letter "S." \
called "Auditing."30 A typical auditing session involves the use of an "E-meter,"31 a
machine which enables one to measure the physiological changes in one's being when
presented with a series of memories and experiences, thus rooting out the useless reactive
mind and strengthening the more useful analytic mind.32 Advanced stages of Clear,
brings forth total mastery over oneself and one's place in the universe, is known as
"Operating Thetan."33
In order to progress through the early stages of "preclear" to the later stages of
Clear and Operating Thetan, one must undergo intense education and a series of
trainings, all of which can cost up to $1,000 per hour.34 The documents and other
materials needed to attain the status of Operating Thetan are not only closely guarded,35
but are at the center of most of the litigation involving the Church of Scientology.


Sorry for the apparent rambling there, but I left some of the more interesting footnotes in.

Apparently, some articles are now saying it was as the result of a seizure!

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blog ... izure.aspx



Keith
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03 Jan 2009, 8:33 am

For a person, 16 is young, for an object such as a car, it's old and worthless. Yet the same amount of time has passed. Is 16 really young?



DeLoreanDude
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03 Jan 2009, 9:13 am

I blame that stupid cult he is in, it's so obvious that they are behind this.



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03 Jan 2009, 10:19 am

I don't know that 16 is young or old. It's quite a bit below the halfway point of an average lifetime.

I think that people are a lot more outraged when a young person dies because youth often implies vulnerability, and in this case, with his disability, that's doubly true. Leaving a known strongly autistic epileptic on his own is just plain stupid. If he has a seizure and hits his head, who calls 911? If he goes into meltdown, who's there to put a pillow between head and wall before he hurts his retinas? Either one on its own might be OK; but both... that's negligent. And both conditions untreated, too. If they'd been treated, he might have been fine on his own.

Abangyarudo wrote:
Callista wrote:
No; they could have done a great deal for him if he had autism and they admitted it and tried to help. Communication, for one; if he didn't speak then they could've tried to either teach him speech or teach him to sign or teach him to point to pictures or any number of communication strategies. There's lots of things you can teach an autistic person. Just because there's no cure (thank goodness) doesn't mean that you should sit home and do nothing. That's as stupid as sitting home and letting your NT child off school. Kids need to learn things to get along in the world and autistics are no different. Honestly I think it's just plain negligent that they didn't treat his seizures--if they could've been controlled, this might not have happened. Not to mention that seizures are even worse for autistics than they are for typical kids, in terms of development; you can get some serious developmental delay from seizures, and that makes autism much harder to work with.
I'm not sure if your referring to my post but if you are your jumping from point a to c a psychologist doesn't teach communication that I know of. You need special teachers for that. What I'm saying is the basic point of scientologies war on psychology is correct psychology as it stands now is a psuedoscience. Now they take it too far to an extreme I agree with that for instance Tom Cruise's comments to Brooke Shields because if it works for her why knock it? Sometimes things work I'm saying if you take out medication and talk about normal psychologists alot of them are incompetent due to the current nature of psychology.

Anything else I won't comment on because quite frankly I don't know the whole situation with John Travolta's son as this is the first time I heard that his son might be autisitic.
A psychologist doesn't teach communication; but he's required for a diagnosis so he can refer the kid to a speech/language therapist, who does. Should've made that clearer, sorry. I think maybe a pediatrician can make an autism diagnosis, too, but you really ought to have a specialist to be sure.


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Last edited by Callista on 03 Jan 2009, 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Abangyarudo
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03 Jan 2009, 10:27 am

Callista wrote:
Abangyarudo wrote:
Callista wrote:
No; they could have done a great deal for him if he had autism and they admitted it and tried to help. Communication, for one; if he didn't speak then they could've tried to either teach him speech or teach him to sign or teach him to point to pictures or any number of communication strategies. There's lots of things you can teach an autistic person. Just because there's no cure (thank goodness) doesn't mean that you should sit home and do nothing. That's as stupid as sitting home and letting your NT child off school. Kids need to learn things to get along in the world and autistics are no different. Honestly I think it's just plain negligent that they didn't treat his seizures--if they could've been controlled, this might not have happened. Not to mention that seizures are even worse for autistics than they are for typical kids, in terms of development; you can get some serious developmental delay from seizures, and that makes autism much harder to work with.
I'm not sure if your referring to my post but if you are your jumping from point a to c a psychologist doesn't teach communication that I know of. You need special teachers for that. What I'm saying is the basic point of scientologies war on psychology is correct psychology as it stands now is a psuedoscience. Now they take it too far to an extreme I agree with that for instance Tom Cruise's comments to Brooke Shields because if it works for her why knock it? Sometimes things work I'm saying if you take out medication and talk about normal psychologists alot of them are incompetent due to the current nature of psychology.

Anything else I won't comment on because quite frankly I don't know the whole situation with John Travolta's son as this is the first time I heard that his son might be autisitic.
A psychologist doesn't teach communication; but he's required for a diagnosis so he can refer the kid to a speech/language therapist, who does. Should've made that clearer, sorry. I think maybe a pediatrician can make an autism diagnosis, too, but you really ought to have a specialist to be sure.


not quite I was refferred to one when I was young without a diagnosis of anything. So they could of have received help without a psychologist ever being involved. So really a psychologist is not needed but to clarify my point it was worthwhile to atleast try it but as I myself have seen psychology is not a science currently its alot of estimation. So while I understand why scientology dislikes psychology I don't understand the extreme they go to fight it. Also I know for me medication didn't do anything for me (acutally all it did was make me sleep 16 hours a day)



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03 Jan 2009, 10:29 am

Well, yeah, some seizures are medication resistant, but most aren't. Considering that repeated seizures can cause damage, trying medication makes a lot of sense.

I didn't realize you could get speech therapy without a referral. My mom, an OT, always gets people referred to her; nobody's ever come up to her on their own.


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03 Jan 2009, 10:33 am

Callista wrote:
Well, yeah, some seizures are medication resistant, but most aren't. Considering that repeated seizures can cause damage, trying medication makes a lot of sense.

I didn't realize you could get speech therapy without a referral. My mom, an OT, always gets people referred to her; nobody's ever come up to her on their own.


I didn't pick up language very quickly as I said individual words but never combined them into sentences. It was due to my having a problem with a reflexive sound (I guess its considered an) organ where I heard bits and pieces and the rest was muffled in the same way you hear when your ears don't pop on a plane. The school had placed a private speech tutor but it slowly started to resolve itself so my mother told them it wasn't nesscary despite their insistance to the contrary.



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03 Jan 2009, 11:51 am

DeLoreanDude wrote:
I blame that stupid cult he is in, it's so obvious that they are behind this.



I agree. Indirectly they are responsible. I think it was Scientoligys anti medication stance that hurt JTs son and that may have helped his condtion. They kept him from getting better.



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03 Jan 2009, 2:45 pm

Autism is not lethal, so it's useless to speculate whether he was autistic at this point. None of you are in any position to be making diagnoses or accusing Travolta of denying his son was autistic. The kid obviously didn't die from autism so it's just rude to argue about it.

As for the actual cause of death, if it was simply having a seizure and hitting his head on the bathroom tile, that is not a suspicious or unusual cause of death. It happens quite often, to both the famous and unheard of. I've been as careful as I could with my own health, but one morning I passed out in the bathroom, hit my head quite hard, but luckily I regained consciousness on my own and was able to get help. Others are not quite so lucky.



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03 Jan 2009, 3:04 pm

Quote:
Mage wrote:
Autism is not lethal, so it's useless to speculate whether he was autistic at this point. None of you are in any position to be making diagnoses or accusing Travolta of denying his son was autistic. The kid obviously didn't die from autism so it's just rude to argue about it.

As for the actual cause of death, if it was simply having a seizure and hitting his head on the bathroom tile, that is not a suspicious or unusual cause of death. It happens quite often, to both the famous and unheard of. I've been as careful as I could with my own health, but one morning I passed out in the bathroom, hit my head quite hard, but luckily I regained consciousness on my own and was able to get help. Others are not quite so lucky.


here here!
thank god for a sane post here. :wink:



wrongplanetmember
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03 Jan 2009, 5:13 pm

In this video Jett seems to have sensory issues... and not much 'gist'. Not sure what it all means... but it's interesting to watch. Poor guy... you can tell he struggled a lot.... but at the same time he looked kinda Zen behind those big dopey eyes of his.

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/298-jett ... ism-31978/



anon-wwp
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03 Jan 2009, 5:50 pm

wrongplanetmember wrote:
In this video Jett seems to have sensory issues... and not much 'gist'. Not sure what it all means... but it's interesting to watch. Poor guy... you can tell he struggled a lot.... but at the same time he looked kinda Zen behind those big dopey eyes of his.

*spam filter*


As a regular WhyWeProtest visitor i would like to warn potential visitors from this forum about the use of strong language in certain topics. Please be adviced that any form of redicule isn't targetted at autists in particular but is more of a cultural phenomenon.

Regards
- anon



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03 Jan 2009, 5:53 pm

wrongplanetmember wrote:
In this video Jett seems to have sensory issues... and not much 'gist'. Not sure what it all means... but it's interesting to watch. Poor guy... you can tell he struggled a lot.... but at the same time he looked kinda Zen behind those big dopey eyes of his.

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/298-jett ... ism-31978/


I didn't see the stimming it spoke about. The kind of slack face was obvious, but really the only damning thing. Nobody really spoke. John had curt responses, his wife spoke to HIM once. Did EITHER kid speak? Did most of the others speak? As for being led, etc... the Girl was as well, and jett started showing some thought and self control in the van. It looked like he tried to estimate distance and space, and move to accomodate. Due to the space, head movement, etc... it is clear he wasn't pushed or physically led. Frankly, they may have been TOLD to be quiet, etc... If they said anything, it could have made crowd control harder. That would ALSO explain why JOHN was so curt, etc...

I have been with people that tried to direct me and, though I haven't been slackjawed, I HAVE tried to ignore others and move to my goal without saying a word. I think the poster tries to make too much of that. In any event, I have known people on drugs, and most END UP like jett appears. So you can't blame that. The only thing I dislike is that is parents are RICH and have generally lived a POSH lifestyle, and they should have had someone to make sure their kids were ok.



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03 Jan 2009, 7:45 pm

rushfanatic wrote:
Fiz wrote:
Drowning? Now that is messed up. Seriously.
Oh, there is so much more. I am reading both the Scientology stories, (of children who escaped from the religion), and then back to Wrongplanet...Very , very powerful organization here. Those who attempt to leave usually end up murdered. And yes, drowning is very common among the victims. I am not trying to be an investigator here, but it looks more and more suspicious to me.


Your statement is BS.

"Those who attempt to leave usually end up murdered."

Name one person murdered because they tried to leave. (other than in your internet fueled imaginings!)