Syndromes versus disorders and the autistic spectrum

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I read something yesterday about BPD that I think applies to the autism spectrum as well.

What it said was that BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) is a syndrome, not a disorder. And the idea behind that distinction was that a disorder has a single etiology, a single identifiable cause. BPD may very well have multiple etiologies. It's a set of symptoms that commonly occur together.

I think the same applies to the autism spectrum. They are, by this way of thinking, syndromes, not disorders. We can't say that it's a single thing (or that each separate diagnosis is a single thing), we can't say the cause or causes are always the same.

I know folks here commonly say it's not a disorder. This is saying that by a different way of thinking. Like, not about if it is or isn't something wrong with the person. But that a disorder is a thing, not just a set of traits, whereas a syndrome is a set of traits. And by the way of thinking, syndrome fits for autism and Asperger's, disorder, I think, does not.

i think the difference is whether or not you can treat it.

then again, i don't know what the treatment is for BPD or how much it helps...


...it just sounds like labeling to me.

I think your missing my point.

I'm not asking about the difference. I'm not giving my opinion about the difference between the two words.

I'm sharing one person's view of the difference between the words, and how I think that applies to Asperger's. That distinction between the two ideas is real regardless of what words one uses.

I'm not going to get into a debate about what the words mean because that's not the point.

It's not about the words but about the ideas. Whether something is distinct thing, with a distinct cause that's always the cause, or whether it's a set of traits or symptoms or characteristics that occur together, with how one got there possibly varying from person to person. And I think Asperger's is the latter.

well asperger's is already labeled a syndrome so you'd be right about the application

I know what you mean without you having to even put it into words. All of these various 'conditions' that set us apart from conventional society really don't need to have labels as it's pretty obvious to us that we're a little different than 'other' people. I gave up worrying about the specific labels a long time ago as they do not serve us to pay attention to them very much.

I'm not sure that your distinction holds. For instance, PTSD is considered a disorder, even though it can result from a myriad of different causes. Sometimes, the cause is a single traumatic event. Sometimes, there are traumatic events of a long period of time. The traumatic events can be quite different--war, domestic violence, a devastating loss, witnessing a death, etc. It is also expressed very differently from person to person.

I've heard PTSD called a syndrome occasionally, but that's not its clinical name. Perhaps the clinicians have it wrong, however. Wouldn't be the first time.

But if you are defining syndrome as a condition with multiple causes and markers, then AS/ASDs definitely fit.

In any case, I hope the DSM-V will start referring to these things as syndromes rather than disorders, because words have a lot of power, and you treat a syndrome/condition much differently than a disorder/disease.

Neshamaruach, read my 2nd post in this thread. Thanks.

As far as names, it's not about if something is named as a disorder. Heck, reread my first post, which I assume you read before replying. I quite clearly indicated that someone said Borderline Personality Disorder is not a disorder. Whatever the name, by one particular definition of disorder, it's not a disorder. As I indicated, by that definition, a disorder has a single etiology (cause or set of causes that work together in the same person). And I'm saying by the same definition of disorder, autism and Asperger's aren't disorders. That's, of course, based on my understanding of them.

By the definitions you gave I would probably say that it's a syndrome yet we don't have enough theoretical knowledge to know for sure. I have a suspicion that there's a single type of underlying physiological brain difference that combines with other genetic traits to produce the wide array of symptoms associated with autism in its various forms. It's just that nothing has been proven.

Now you understand my post. You can overthink this stuff to death.

I read them both very carefully, MR, and I answered your question when I said: 'But if you are defining syndrome as a condition with multiple causes and markers, then AS/ASDs definitely fit.'

The rest was my own thought process, my own ideas, my own way of working with all the questions that arose in my mind from your post.

Try reading again and reading accurately this time.

No, you didn't answer my question. You couldn't have, because there was no question. You can't answer a question if there's no question there to be answered.

the problem i have with your statement is that asperger's is already classified as a "syndrome," it's not labeled a "disorder" to begin with, so your comparison seems backwards to me. if you had said that you agree with BPD as being a syndrome like asperger's and not the other way around like you worded it, i wouldn't be confused.


basically, nobody thinks autism and asperger's are disorders, as they are already labeled as syndromes. so you're right, but i don't understand what you mean by it.

perhaps you could clarify?

Not quite right.

It is called 299.80 Asperger's Disorder and 299.00 Autistic Disorder in the DSM-IV-TR.

It is however called F84.5 Asperger's Syndrome and F84.0 Childhood Autism in the ICD-10.




Personally, I think the word disorder just encompasses the word syndrome amongst others usually.

Aspergers is a Syndrome. However, it falls under the classification of Pervasive Development Disorder and sometimes Autism Spectrum Disorder.

oh. i didn't realize this. nevermind then.

In addition to what Sora said, two things.

First, I'm not making a suggestion about whether AS should be called a disorder or a syndrome. I'm commenting on the nature of AS.

Second, I was taking an idea that was said about something else, and applying it to AS. No, it can't go the other way around. That would require having read something about AS that I wanted to apply to BPD. But that's not what happened.

The writer I was referring to used the words disorder and syndrome to make a point about the nature of BPD. Not about the name or what it should be called, but what it is truly like. And I was applying that idea to AS. That it's not a single thing with a distinct way it comes about, but a set of symptoms that might be arrived at in different ways.

I bolded that because it's a restatement of the main idea I was trying to express. I'm saying, I think that's likely true of the autistic spectrum as well.